lelandr

Absolutely they can. Quality Chinese workmanship is a contradiction in terms. They shortcut every step of the way. From construction and manning of the facilities to QC for sub-suppliers to maintenance. Everything is short-cut. You also have to keep in mind that China is a country where PERCEPTION of quality is much more important than quality itself. Furthermore, China IS horribly inefficient. Yes, they buy the very best equipment from the West that they can afford, but they tend to operate in a horribly inefficient (both from a process and resources standpoint) manner. This means that technological goods (like metals or cars) are only cheaper because they are inferior.

Also keep in mind that none of the workers making these parts will ever make enough money (if they get paid at all--which I have seen several times) to ever buy a car.

I said I worked a couple of years in China, well I've also worked a few years in Germany and worked 12 years for a German company. The Germans tend to be very detail oriented and work very hard to assure quality throughout the manufacturing. Efficiency is much more paramount, as is thinking long-term.

Europe is an entirely different consumer market than the US. Whereas we tend to buy more quantity of the cheapest garbage at Wal-Mart with the idea of a short replacement cycle, most Europeans spend the extra money for a lesser number of higher-quality, longer-lasting goods.

Both **** me off. The fact that I got a lower quality part (when compared to the German and Austrian parts) and that I paid a huge premium for it.....from a vendor I've seen well-regarded on this forum. Even being a Mann filter, this thing is junk.....I give it a year at best. Next time I will try to be more selective.

It'll NEVER happen. China doesn't make engineers, they make software duplicators. Their whole education is based on copying someone else's work at a cheaper price. Troubleshooting, collaboration, teamwork, applying theory to practical problems--all non-existent in their education. When I first went to China, I thought like you did, but after a while and learning about their history (I thought this attitude started with the Communists) I learned that a lot of the traits keeping them from being 1st world are deep-seeded and date back thousands of years.

The G Man

All the things you said describea China for what it is, a developing nation, not a fully industrialized nation like the US and Germany. We said the same thing about Japan 40 years ago, they make cheap junks and all they can do is copy things. Look where they are now. I agree that the Communists culture of China plays a role in worker's attitute, but Chinese workers are starting to have more incentives to worker harder and produce a better quality product unlike the pass. It is definitely not attitude that is deep seeded and goes back thousands of years. Just look at the great wall of China, that structure remine standing for thousands of years, now that is quality built. Look at the details in their temples and you will realized what kind of time and skill went into their work.

lelandr

Haha, that's funny. I've worked with Japanese and Chinese engineers. There's more than a few decades there, there's a complete and total shift in mentality. The Chinese word for China means "center," as in China is the center of the world. The Chinese idea that they are a superior race dates back thousands of years. It carries to current times in their complete refusal to listen to advice of people who know better.

Obviously, you've never been to the Great Wall. Most of it is un-restored and lies in piles everywhere. When you get to the top of the mountain of the restored section (the one everyone sees in pictures), there is a sign thanking several German companies for completing the restoration. All of those temples have fallen or burned down & been restored. They were built with the same mentality then that their manufacturing empire used now: That you can accomplish pretty much anything with an unlimited army of slave labor.

Like I said, I thought like you until I worked there for a couple of years.....now I don't want their parts in my car, and I suspect that their economy will collapse in on itself before they ever become as successful as Japan.

The G Man

But you havent work with japanese engineers from 40 years ago. I think deep inside, all race think they are the superior race, that is human nature. The Chinese work force will listen and can be tarined, it just take a bit longer because of their lack of education, which is something you will face in every developing country. Why do you think the labor their is so cheap, you get what you paid for.
Just the fact that the great wall is still standing is a great accomplishment to the builders. Countries in Africa and country such as the US have access to slaves and I dont see any great wall in Africa or here in the US.
Welcome to the global economy, rather your car comes from China, Mexico or Russia. It is where ever they can get it the cheapest, rather you like it or not.
I think the US economy will collapse between China's. The US simply do not have any manufacturering base anymore, that base is what built the US from teh ground up, just like what is happening in China right now. Besides, in another 100 year, China will own most of US anyways

lelandr

I guess we can maybe agree to disagree. I have personally found that there is a much larger rift between Chinese and Japanese attitudes than just a couple of generations. Basic things like organization, logical process, etc. When you look back through history, one has it and one doesn't.

You don't have to tell me about globalization. I'm an American engineer working for a German company starting factories in Asia, Europe and N. America, who's constantly working hard to keep my boss aware of the fact that I'm well worth the premium over 3rd world counterparts......

We're getting way OT now, but here's a fun fact before you write off the good 'ol USA. You know that in 2009, on currency terms (e.g. in dollars, euros) that the USA was still the world's leading manufacturer? Ok, not the stuff you find in Wally World (or apparently Audi parts bins ) but things like power plants, airplanes, factories, robotics, medical equipment. You know that it was only at the end of 2009 that China passed Germany as the world's leading exporter (also currency terms) and that the USA is still a close 3rd? If you look deeper, you'll find that China's economy is a lot more of a glass house than a lot of people think.

The G Man

Japan's industrial revolution started after world war two. Much like Germany, they were so successful due to the fact that were ban from having a large military as part of the treaty. The money went toward their industrial infer-structures instead.
Globalization is a touchy word for me personally. While I enjoy bargains, I do not enjoy seeing all our manufacturering jobs going over sea. We are left with a few higher management jobs and the rest are low paying service jobs.
China's economy has no place to go but up right now, why do you think every company is trying to get into the Chinese market. Think back 10 years ago, China was manufacturers things like toys or pencils. Now they are making TV sets and auto parts. In another 10 years, they will be making power plants, airplanes, factories, robotics, medical equipment. I think our economy is the one that is a glass house.

Avantt007

Chinese parts DO NOT mean cheap parts. Apple products are made from China, including many other big companies as well.

Almost every product you touch today is probably made from China, its due to their massive manufacturing factories, efficient processes, + cost capabilities. If anything, their level of quality is getting better and better. It's the Chinese factories without Quality Assurance and refined processes that do crappy quality stuff that give China a bad rep.

A6Gary

in China, it doesn't mean the products are as good as products previously made here. Some first–hand examples: I recently installed Kohler faucets with the drain assemblies that were made in China, and I can tell you that the metal edges and threads were not finished as smoothly, i.e., sharp edges, as previous Kohler drains made in US factories. I also noticed the same with the plastic attachments and case for a Wahl beard/mustache trimmer, which was completely made in China. Sure, a lot of American companies have shut down their factories, and moved their manufacturing to China, primarily for lower costs and to increase their profits. But those actions only lower the middle class living standard (i.e., lower–paying service jobs vs. higher–paying manufacturing jobs), and increase our debt, neither of which can continue indefinately. Who do you think has been the primary financier of the Federal budget deficit year after year? (Hint: its the same country that we buy all of our consumer goods from!)

The G Man

Yet, we continue to buy these products from Walmart and other discount stores. You and I can choose to buy made in USA labels only at double the cost, but we dont. These comapnies move production to China for a reason, it is to stay competitive.

A6Gary

I don't/won't shop at Walmart, and I do try to buy non–Chinese made products when I can find them, even paying a premium to do so. But it is getting nearly impossible now to find anything that isn't made in China at any price.