Grrrr. Chinese parts!
03-11-2010, 04:34 AM
#21
AudiWorld Super User
So instead of Walmart, which store do you shop in that only sells American product? Do you own a TV set? There you go, inside that TV set, its full of Chinese parts. There are Chinese parts all over the place inside your house as we speak, rather you know it or not. I bet there are a bunch of parts inside your Audi that is made by some developing country.
Last edited by The G Man; 03-11-2010 at 04:36 AM.
03-11-2010, 10:12 PM
#22
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Walmart is off my store list primarily because of their business practices, which includes forcing US companies to move their manufacturing to China in order to buy their products at a lower price that they (Walmart) set. My two TV's are made by Sony, either in the US (my older set) or Mexico (newer set) - what's in the inside was up to Sony (but probably have some electronic components made in China). Yes, there are some Chinese–made consumer products in my home because I couldn't find the item not made in China, or didn't know it was made in China until I received it. In some cases, I have returned products that I have purchased when I see where they are made. But our home does not contain Chinese made products "...all over the place...". As I have said, I TRY to buy non–Chinese made products whenever I can, but is is getting very difficult for a number of products.
03-12-2010, 04:35 AM
#23
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03-15-2010, 06:02 PM
#24
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Because Mexico isn't cheating the world economic system by keeping their currency depressed. The Yuan has been tied to the dollar for more than a decade. While their economic growth has been double-digit for most of that time, their currency is based on a much more slowly growing economy.
Like I said, I lived & worked in China for almost two years at various facilities, and they are a joke. The G Man contends that Japanese engineers 40 years ago, but I seriously doubt that is the case. At the outset of the second world war, Japan had one of the world's largest and most technologically advanced navy. Japan's rise started a long while before WWII. They had conquered most of Asia, including China. Seeing China's sense of organization and cooperation, I would venture to say that Japan could easily take them again if properly armed.
China is much more than just a generation behind Japan. Anyone who thinks that China will be successfully manufacturing airplanes, power plants, or anything even remotely technological is sadly mistaken. It really says something that the top 3 cars in 2008 in China were German. Most of the Chinese I knew who could afford cars felt that Chinese cars were unacceptable by way of comparison.....being that they regularly self-immolate, deposit parts all over the roads and stop mysteriously.
China will never be able to manufacture really good, high-tech or industrial items. Their people are just not organized, cooperative and open-minded enough to learn the skills they need to really reach the heights of Westerners. You know why I spent so long in China? Because our customers there don't want Chinese engineers designing and building their plants....that alone says a lot. There are exceptions, i.e. very, very bright people, but what happens? That's right they get their butts out of that cess-pool for greener pastures like the EU and USA, which is great, because not only are we benefiting from their best and brightest, but we're depriving their home countries of it.
The G man mentioned the Great Wall, which goes on to show China's continuous record of engineering failure. The wall itself isn't that impressive. It's just a wall about 3m wide & 3 or 4m high. What is impressive is WHERE it is. It is mostly built on top of impassible mountains. An impossible structure built more for show than for function--especially since they didn't make it contiguous and the Mons and Manchurians walked right through it. The bricks were laid parallel to the ground rather than level (and the central part is just loosely piled stones), meaning that the shear forces at the mortar joints meant the wall just crumbled to piles of rock....Until a bunch of European companies came and rebuilt the walls for them.
By way of comparison, the Roman city walls, Coloseum and forum (which were built about 1000 years prior to the Great Wall's oldest sections) are much more impressive, both from an engineering and aesthetic standpoint.
I think that the China thing will fix itself. From a workforce age perspective, China is facing an even bigger problem than the USA due to the implementation of the 1-child policy 40 years ago. China has one of the world's largest percentages of aging population, the younger generation is going to have to support them. This doesn't even get into the ecological disaster that they are making of their country. In 2008, 1/2 of all new cancer cases world-wide were in China. Their rivers and lakes are poisonous. In a year in Taiyuan in north China I can count the number of days I saw the sky on my fingers--the pollution there is THAT bad. In 2005, 1 million people died in industrial accidents and a further 1 million died in other accidents.
Trust me, if it came from China, it's junk that's all they can do. The smart Chinese guys I mentioned. I work with two of them. They left China and one conceded exactly, "Chinese people work so hard at sitting around making junk." Like I said, you see the crap we buy here from China? That's the best they put out. The stuff they can buy in China is complete junk. Much of it is 1-use. The rich flock to the US and EU to shop so that they can buy items that are well-made (the brands are available in China, but even their people can't know whether or not they are buying genuine items or not).
FWIW, the factory filter I pulled out of the car was also made in China.
Like I said, I lived & worked in China for almost two years at various facilities, and they are a joke. The G Man contends that Japanese engineers 40 years ago, but I seriously doubt that is the case. At the outset of the second world war, Japan had one of the world's largest and most technologically advanced navy. Japan's rise started a long while before WWII. They had conquered most of Asia, including China. Seeing China's sense of organization and cooperation, I would venture to say that Japan could easily take them again if properly armed.
China is much more than just a generation behind Japan. Anyone who thinks that China will be successfully manufacturing airplanes, power plants, or anything even remotely technological is sadly mistaken. It really says something that the top 3 cars in 2008 in China were German. Most of the Chinese I knew who could afford cars felt that Chinese cars were unacceptable by way of comparison.....being that they regularly self-immolate, deposit parts all over the roads and stop mysteriously.
China will never be able to manufacture really good, high-tech or industrial items. Their people are just not organized, cooperative and open-minded enough to learn the skills they need to really reach the heights of Westerners. You know why I spent so long in China? Because our customers there don't want Chinese engineers designing and building their plants....that alone says a lot. There are exceptions, i.e. very, very bright people, but what happens? That's right they get their butts out of that cess-pool for greener pastures like the EU and USA, which is great, because not only are we benefiting from their best and brightest, but we're depriving their home countries of it.
The G man mentioned the Great Wall, which goes on to show China's continuous record of engineering failure. The wall itself isn't that impressive. It's just a wall about 3m wide & 3 or 4m high. What is impressive is WHERE it is. It is mostly built on top of impassible mountains. An impossible structure built more for show than for function--especially since they didn't make it contiguous and the Mons and Manchurians walked right through it. The bricks were laid parallel to the ground rather than level (and the central part is just loosely piled stones), meaning that the shear forces at the mortar joints meant the wall just crumbled to piles of rock....Until a bunch of European companies came and rebuilt the walls for them.
By way of comparison, the Roman city walls, Coloseum and forum (which were built about 1000 years prior to the Great Wall's oldest sections) are much more impressive, both from an engineering and aesthetic standpoint.
I think that the China thing will fix itself. From a workforce age perspective, China is facing an even bigger problem than the USA due to the implementation of the 1-child policy 40 years ago. China has one of the world's largest percentages of aging population, the younger generation is going to have to support them. This doesn't even get into the ecological disaster that they are making of their country. In 2008, 1/2 of all new cancer cases world-wide were in China. Their rivers and lakes are poisonous. In a year in Taiyuan in north China I can count the number of days I saw the sky on my fingers--the pollution there is THAT bad. In 2005, 1 million people died in industrial accidents and a further 1 million died in other accidents.
Trust me, if it came from China, it's junk that's all they can do. The smart Chinese guys I mentioned. I work with two of them. They left China and one conceded exactly, "Chinese people work so hard at sitting around making junk." Like I said, you see the crap we buy here from China? That's the best they put out. The stuff they can buy in China is complete junk. Much of it is 1-use. The rich flock to the US and EU to shop so that they can buy items that are well-made (the brands are available in China, but even their people can't know whether or not they are buying genuine items or not).
FWIW, the factory filter I pulled out of the car was also made in China.
03-16-2010, 06:50 AM
#25
AudiWorld Super User
lelandr, do you think for one second if Mexico knows how to make their currency work to their advantage, they would not, you are kidding yourself. What you are describing over and over again is China being a developing nation, please tell us something we don't yet know. Here is a free History lesson for you, the great was of China is build in 770 BC and the Rome Coloseum is build in 72 AD. Most engineers would find out that facts before they ramble on about a bunch of histories thats not true. Are you sure you are an engineer? I am starting to think maybe you are just an American Laborer sent over to Asia to do the work that American engineers dont want to do.
How can you say Japan can beat China in a war today, when Japan don't even have a full military and China is a nuclear power. For someone who have work in Asia, you should really take the time to learn about their history instead of belittling it. Just because you live there for a year, it doesn't make you an expert on their culture or history. I guess that's why more foreigners think of American as arrogant. As a American repersentitive to China, you are giving us all a bad name.
How can you say Japan can beat China in a war today, when Japan don't even have a full military and China is a nuclear power. For someone who have work in Asia, you should really take the time to learn about their history instead of belittling it. Just because you live there for a year, it doesn't make you an expert on their culture or history. I guess that's why more foreigners think of American as arrogant. As a American repersentitive to China, you are giving us all a bad name.
Last edited by The G Man; 03-16-2010 at 02:03 PM.
03-16-2010, 04:07 PM
#26
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lelandr, do you think for one second if Mexico knows how to make their currency work to their advantage, they would not, you are kidding yourself. What you are describing over and over again is China being a developing nation, please tell us something we don't yet know. Here is a free History lesson for you, the great was of China is build in 770 BC and the Rome Coloseum is build in 72 AD. Most engineers would find out that facts before they ramble on about a bunch of histories thats not true. Are you sure you are an engineer? I am starting to think maybe you are just an American Laborer sent over to Asia to do the work that American engineers dont want to do.
How can you say Japan can beat China in a war today, when Japan don't even have a full military and China is a nuclear power. For someone who have work in Asia, you should really take the time to learn about their history instead of belittling it. Just because you live there for a year, it doesn't make you an expert on their culture or history. I guess that's why more foreigners think of American as arrogant. As a American repersentitive to China, you are giving us all a bad name.
How can you say Japan can beat China in a war today, when Japan don't even have a full military and China is a nuclear power. For someone who have work in Asia, you should really take the time to learn about their history instead of belittling it. Just because you live there for a year, it doesn't make you an expert on their culture or history. I guess that's why more foreigners think of American as arrogant. As a American repersentitive to China, you are giving us all a bad name.
Here is a history lesson for you. SOME parts of the wall in the central Shaanxi province were built around the 5th century BC....none of those really exist anymore (I did mis-state the "oldest sections" part). The parts of the wall still standing were built much, much later (like the middle ages) and restored in the 70s.
I provided you with facts. As an engineer, I can tell you that most reasonable people would actually carefully READ a post before ranting off. Many would also makes sure that they spell-checked and grammar-checked before supposing that they were smarter than another. For instance, had you read CAREFULLY, you would have noticed that I said I felt the Japanese could probably beat China "if properly armed." You must have overlooked the discussion of the construction of the wall which led to it's crumbling.
I guess you also failed to read the parts where I said that even the Chinese living in China don't want their own workmanship. You must have also missed the part a couple of posts ago where I conceded that I thought like you until I actually went there and lived and worked.
You want some engineering? Metals is all about science--metallurgy and process. If the chemistry is wrong, the metal will be crap. If the process is wrong, ditto. To grossly simplify, just because you put all of the ingredients for an apple pie into a pan & throw it into an oven doesn't guarantee an apple pie. The metal the Chinese were sending us was horribly alloyed. Austenitic stainless steel is supposed to be non-magnetic due to the nickel content and grain structure. Yet many hard drive manufacturers refuse to use the stuff from China due to high magnetism of the austenitic stainless. We found large amounts of Co-60 in steels there--don't hold your Chinese car parts too close to your brain or groin.
I guess you missed the recent stories about toys with lead paint, babies poisoned by milk with melamine and food establishments loading up food with cardboard detritus.
Rolling mills necessarily deform under hundreds of tons of force. However, they are supposed to deform elastically--that means when the load is removed, they return to their original form. Most good European and Japanese mills will deform 3-5mm. The Chinese developed one which was actually and exact copy from the drawings of a German mill. We did a hysteresis test and it plastically (that means permanently) deformed 6mm, rendering it a large dust-collecting bin. Enjoy flying on your Chinese airplane.
An engineer...yes. I am one of the very few engineers world-wide that specialize in the design and commissioning of closed-loop flatness and gauge control systems for rolled sheet globally. You use things (when's the last time you drank something from an aluminum can) and ride in cars every day in which I had a hand in creating. Fly recently? You're welcome.
I find it rather interesting that you mock me for not knowing the history of Asia, when you clearly don't know much about it or me. I lived in multiple places in China for nearly two years. I was excited to go. I like China and I am interested in their history and have traveled extensively throughout the country and made many friends. I've lived in several countries in my office I am definitely a minority as an American. I can speak in German, carry a conversation in Thai and speak enough Mandarin to order food, make small talk, get directions and ask for help. Just for the record, I am definitely not one of these "USA is #1" guys who stomps around foreign countries complaining that no one speaks "American," quite the opposite really.
Buy all the Chinese junk you want. From my standpoint, I would rather spend more money to buy higher end products of a higher quality that last longer and function better. I can guarantee you that those are not made in China now or anytime real soon.
There are various levels of developing countries. Yes, the workmanship is definitely better in developing countries such as Thailand, Korea, Malaysia, Brazil and Eastern Europe than China. Can you find places worse? Without a doubt, but China is a LONG way behind a lot of developing countries which simply don't enjoy the scale (or tolerance of the currency manipulation) to compete with China.
03-17-2010, 04:36 AM
#27
AudiWorld Super User
lelandr, talking about ranting off, get a grip before you have a heart attack 
Frankly, I don’t believe you are an engineer, nor do I need to take anything you say seriously because you have already proven that what you call facts are merely no more than your opinion based on your own disillusion. I find it funny that every time when someone have been proven wrong, they start with spelling and grammar check.
You are a typical arrogant American who give the rest of us a bad name, aka, David Duke. Go learn some manner and morality, the world does not revolve around you. On top of being a supremacist, you are also a hypocrite, you dislike Chinese products so much, but the computer you are typing on is full of Chinese parts. Your 2 years spend in China was a total waste of time, you have learn nothing about their history and their culture. From your lack of knowledge about China, I bet you didn’t even spend any time there. I bet you are just some minimum wage working sitting in a bar drunk right now typing on a cell phone that you cannot afford
Frankly, I don’t believe you are an engineer, nor do I need to take anything you say seriously because you have already proven that what you call facts are merely no more than your opinion based on your own disillusion. I find it funny that every time when someone have been proven wrong, they start with spelling and grammar check. You are a typical arrogant American who give the rest of us a bad name, aka, David Duke. Go learn some manner and morality, the world does not revolve around you. On top of being a supremacist, you are also a hypocrite, you dislike Chinese products so much, but the computer you are typing on is full of Chinese parts. Your 2 years spend in China was a total waste of time, you have learn nothing about their history and their culture. From your lack of knowledge about China, I bet you didn’t even spend any time there. I bet you are just some minimum wage working sitting in a bar drunk right now typing on a cell phone that you cannot afford
Last edited by The G Man; 03-17-2010 at 04:51 AM.
03-17-2010, 06:25 AM
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lelandr, talking about ranting off, get a grip before you have a heart attack Frankly, I don’t believe you are an engineer, nor do I need to take anything you say seriously because you have already proven that what you call facts are merely no more than your opinion based on your own disillusion. I find it funny that every time when someone have been proven wrong, they start with spelling and grammar check.
You are a typical arrogant American who give the rest of us a bad name, aka, David Duke. Go learn some manner and morality, the world does not revolve around you. On top of being a supremacist, you are also a hypocrite, you dislike Chinese products so much, but the computer you are typing on is full of Chinese parts. Your 2 years spend in China was a total waste of time, you have learn nothing about their history and their culture. From your lack of knowledge about China, I bet you didn’t even spend any time there. I bet you are just some minimum wage working sitting in a bar drunk right now typing on a cell phone that you cannot afford
Frankly, I don’t believe you are an engineer, nor do I need to take anything you say seriously because you have already proven that what you call facts are merely no more than your opinion based on your own disillusion. I find it funny that every time when someone have been proven wrong, they start with spelling and grammar check. You are a typical arrogant American who give the rest of us a bad name, aka, David Duke. Go learn some manner and morality, the world does not revolve around you. On top of being a supremacist, you are also a hypocrite, you dislike Chinese products so much, but the computer you are typing on is full of Chinese parts. Your 2 years spend in China was a total waste of time, you have learn nothing about their history and their culture. From your lack of knowledge about China, I bet you didn’t even spend any time there. I bet you are just some minimum wage working sitting in a bar drunk right now typing on a cell phone that you cannot afford
Obviously, comprehension of written material is not your forte. Had you read my post you would realize that I have no "American" superiority complex and am not a supremacist. You don't know anything about me. I gave you some insights, but you don't know anything.
Your contentions are no more than your opinion. I wonder if you've ever traveled outside of your county? From what TV news are you getting your information?
Learn manners and morality? That's the pot calling the kettle black.
Oh no, some guy on the internet who knows nothing about me doesn't believe I'm an engineer. Oh my, what to do? Fortunately for me the only important body, the NCEES, does apparently does think so.
Don't worry about my money. I've got plenty...I paid cash for my wife's 06 Audi and own 4 cars outright--with enough to spare to go out and buy pretty much anything I want. You?
Come back to this discussion after you've switched on your brain and actually read the posts.
03-17-2010, 09:13 AM
#29
AudiWorld Super User
lelandr, you are right, I don’t know you, but I do know that you discriminate people due of their race. The world have no tolerance for people like you, you need to crawl back to the cave where you came out from.
Here is one of your so called facts:
You were off by over 1800 years. I am an engineer as well, I know by education, engineers are trained to research the facts before making a statement. Either you are not an engineer at all or you are just not a very good one. May I suggest that if you actually pay for your education, which I doubt, you might want to ask for your money back.
By the way, Colosseum is spelled with two S, you should really learn proper English before you write in public.
Here is one of your so called facts:
By the way, Colosseum is spelled with two S, you should really learn proper English before you write in public.
Last edited by The G Man; 03-17-2010 at 09:18 AM.
03-22-2010, 07:53 PM
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lelandr, you are right, I don’t know you, but I do know that you discriminate people due of their race. The world have no tolerance for people like you, you need to crawl back to the cave where you came out from.
Here is one of your so called facts:
You were off by over 1800 years. I am an engineer as well, I know by education, engineers are trained to research the facts before making a statement. Either you are not an engineer at all or you are just not a very good one. May I suggest that if you actually pay for your education, which I doubt, you might want to ask for your money back.
By the way, Colosseum is spelled with two S, you should really learn proper English before you write in public.
Here is one of your so called facts:
You were off by over 1800 years. I am an engineer as well, I know by education, engineers are trained to research the facts before making a statement. Either you are not an engineer at all or you are just not a very good one. May I suggest that if you actually pay for your education, which I doubt, you might want to ask for your money back.
By the way, Colosseum is spelled with two S, you should really learn proper English before you write in public.
As an engineer, you should be able to understand the face-palm resulting from trying one's very best to help a customer out with your knowledge and experience and just having them ignore it. Their problem really, but very frustrating--and this was customer after customer after customer. This is something you only get from working in other places with people.
You stated that the Great Wall was built in 770BC. You were about two millennium off of the time frame that many consider the Great Wall to have been constructed. Here is the UNESCO site:
World Heritage
Here is an article from Nat Geo with a map of remaining sections and when they are believed to have been constructed:
Great Wall
Map
You are an engineer, really? Seems you haven't been doing diligent research either. I have an advantage over you in that I can go back and look through your previous posts....I really do not think you are in any position to be criticizing anyone's English composition (crawl back to the cave where you came out from.--Really?). I have no reason to request a refund, as I received a top-notch education, which I worked my a$$ off to pay for coincidentally. Just to put your mind at ease, I am a damn fine engineer and extremely well-compensated for my knowledge and expertise.