markcincinnati

I have now spent a weekend with a new set of Pirelli Pzero Nero M+S UHP A/S (Z rated) tires in size 245 x 40 x 18" on my 2005 standard suspension A6 3.2 quattro.

I spent 25k mls. with the OEM tires -- ContiProContact (H rated) Grand Touring A/S tires in the same size on the same wheels.

From the day I picked up my new car, I wrote here that I thought it was "under-tired."

I also regretted the $250 non-selection of the sport suspension. My bad.

I did mitigate the tire issue, at least somewhat, by almost immediately adding pounds to the tires and attempting to address the Audi's nose heaviness by inflating the tires +3 pounds on the front. I have settled on 39 pounds, front, 36 pounds rear.

The combination of a 40 series tire with an H rating produces a suboptimal effect -- why would
Audi choose to do this?

Well. . .

The design and selection by Audi of THIS Grand Touring H rated A/S tire seems to have been for the benefit of what Americans must be perceived to want: i.e., smooth ride and low noise characteristics, low profile appearance and all temperature performance (with a tiny bit of snow traction thrown in for folks who, like me, live in climates that have moderate snowfall and rarely have sub 25 degree (F) temps.)

The Grand Touring tires would be "ideal" for long relatively high speed cruises on US Interstate highways. They are NOT so good when it comes to carving up a twisty road, however.

And, even though it be an A6, it is still an Audi, and my purchase of an Audi, remains in part, for its handling.

The GT OEM tires made the car seem, somewhat, like a boat. Let me 'splain this. On an approach to a curve or turn the car seemed to turn in just a hair AFTER the steering wheel was turned when the car was shod with the H rated GT tires. Not so with the apparently stiffer and stickier Pirelli's. Turn the wheel and the nose instantly goes in the direction you just told it to go.

The difference is really noticeable on an uphill "S" curve at speeds about 50% higher than the sign indicates is the suggested speed. After I had almost 100 miles on the new shoes they seemed to make the car track up the hillside as the saying goes, "like it was on rails."

These tires are -- at this point -- quieter than the outgoing Conti's (which still had 4/32" tread left.) They are smooth -- after about one mile's travel if they have been sitting in the garage overnight and, yes, they are slightly "firmer" in road feel almost as if the Contis were like a pair of gloves, insulating some of the road feel from the driver. The Pirellis are like taking the gloves off, with respect to tactile feel.

The Tirerack rep suggested that even though the wear expectation numbers of these two tires is identical at 400, that there is no uniform standard. He added, the Pirellis probably will go to 3/32's at around 25,000+ miles, whereas the Contis would have probably made it to 30,000 with 3/32's left (2/32's is when it is mandatory to change the tires, BTW.) I paid $156 each (they are now $160) for these tires -- the Contis at the Tirerack were $202.

I remember the days when Audis came ONLY with UHP or MAX performance Summer only tires. These tires often lasted fewer than 20,000 miles, became noisy after 12,000 - 15,000 and were downright dangerous in Winter. It seems "odd" that Audi (and now Pirelli) is willing to make products specifically for the US market yet will not permit a customer to buy what he wants (or at least may want.)

Here is what is available and routinely comes on new Audi products. . .

o Brands: Continental, Dunlop, GoodYear, Michelin and Pirelli.

o Types: Summer only (usually Z rated, sometimes V rated) All Season (almost always H rated, sometimes V rated)

o Aspect Ratios: 55, 50, 45, 40, 35 (in sizes 16, 17, 18, 19, and 20")

Never say never, but it is ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE to get a new Audi with UHP All Seasons, you take the car with UHP Summer tires or HP All Seasons (and the differences between these tire types is NOT AT ALL SUBTLE.)

I know tires for the Summer and Winter are the "ideal" way to go. And, growing up NORTH of Dayton, Ohio, I was used to the annual ritual of the tire change. Moving south some 80 miles, to Cincinnati, after college, I have rarely seen a time (temp or precip) when a dedicated snow tire would provide any better "go in the snow" capability than a young set of all seasons "W" rated, perhaps on an AWD vehicle. Once, recently, Christmas 2004, we had ice on the Interstate highways. for two days -- thick ice. Perhaps studded snow tires on an SUV would have been good. For most of us, however, it just meant short trips for a day or two. The time before that, as I recall, was a one day level-1 snow day back in 1994. In other words, in this "neck of the woods" the UHP all season tire is a very small performance compromise and when compared with the H rated grand touring all season shoes Audi (and the other Germans and even Japanese) chooses, the handling differences are, to repeat, NOT AT ALL SUBTLE.

Overall: "big improvement," is the bottom line with these tires.

philm35

Mark--

Did you ever try the 18" OEM Michelins? That's what came on my '05 A6... I much prefer them to the Contis that I tried in my pre-purchase test drive. Far less turn-in lag, and a lot grippier on braking. They're still the all-season compromise, but much less of one than comes with the Conti, IMHO.

--Phil

markcincinnati

I upgraded my 2003 allroad to the Michelin Ultra High Performance All Season tires in a plus zero configuration.

These tires were Z rated and were 245 x 50 x 17" on the allroad's OEM wheels. I upgraded from the allroad's flimsy 225 x 55 x 17" stock tires, without even driving one mile on the OEM's.

My wife's X3 has 18" MXV4's H rated all season's -- as part of the sport package option. The key difference with the Michelin's seems to be tread wear -- much better than the Contis.

I have no back to back experience, then, and therefore, cannot comment on the quality of performance of the Audi OEM selection from Michelin. But, I do take your word.

The Michelin's -- are they also H rated?

The Pirelli tires are UHP tires that somehow have been minted with a bit more tolerance for cold temps, otherwise they're pure UHP tires -- the compromise is minimal, IMHO.

- Mark

Edward'TLS

cold tire adhesion problem from the original PZero tire family. They need to warm up to attain full stickiness. So don't try to throw the car into corners first thing in the morning after leaving the driveway.

philm35

I've got the Michelin Pilot HX MXM4, (245/40R18). They are H rated.

They got pretty terrible reviews on Tire Rack, but my experience with them has been very positive... nothing to complain about. Mine have 12,000 miles on them and they seem to be wearing normally.

--Phil

Edward'TLS

for maximum comfort and ultra-quiet ride, whereas the PZero Nero M+S's are ultra high performance all-season tires. There is simply no comparison between the two. The Michelin Pilot Sport A/S will be a better comparison with the PZero.

philm35

I understand... I was making a comparison the the OEM Conti's that originally came with Mark's car and the A6 that I test drove before purchasing my car.

--Phil

ZCD2.7T

I love mine, too. 25K miles and still decent tread left.