2000 A8 or 1999 Lex GS400
08-06-2003, 03:01 PM
#1
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2000 A8 or 1999 Lex GS400
I have a question for you guys:
I can get a 1999 GS400 (w/ nav) for 25K
I can get a 2000 Audi A8 for 31K
Now my dad is really pushing for the Audi (he's paying for the car) because it's a quattro and I go to school near cleveland, oh. I personally like the GS better. Now i'm not complaining because I'm getting a pretty good car either way but I'm asking the members of the board which one they would pick.
I can get a 1999 GS400 (w/ nav) for 25K
I can get a 2000 Audi A8 for 31K
Now my dad is really pushing for the Audi (he's paying for the car) because it's a quattro and I go to school near cleveland, oh. I personally like the GS better. Now i'm not complaining because I'm getting a pretty good car either way but I'm asking the members of the board which one they would pick.
08-06-2003, 05:07 PM
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Re: 2000 A8 or 1999 Lex GS400
Lexus builds good cars;
Audi builds great cars.
In your situation, I would go with the Audi.
Quattro drive, with class and elegance.
Good luck with whatever you get.
DocFl.
04 A8
Black with Amaretto
T minus 5 days
Audi builds great cars.
In your situation, I would go with the Audi.
Quattro drive, with class and elegance.
Good luck with whatever you get.
DocFl.
04 A8
Black with Amaretto
T minus 5 days
08-06-2003, 06:11 PM
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Re: 2000 A8 or 1999 Lex GS400
Lexus is rear wheel drive and Audi is quattro--I would go for the quattro A8 (I currently have a 1999 E-320 Mercedes with 4matic (all wheel drive) and I have an A8L on order for October delivery. I have recently also looked at the Lexus LS430 it is a beautiful car and made extremely well but the all wheel drive tipped me in favor of the Audi.
08-06-2003, 09:05 PM
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I think Lexus makes bland cars, here's why:
I've been comparing Japanese vs. German cars for a while now (being in the automotive supplier business) and here's what I found:
Pro Japanese:
- Their cars are usually very reliable
- That's it really
Con Japanese:
- Their cars are reliable because they don't innovate, they copy and perfect things
- Their styling is usually very bland, the original LS400 (now 430) is pretty much a copy of the pre-1992 (W126) Mercedes S-class. Look at both models and you'll see what I mean. The SC is a pretty bland copy of the TT styling.
- Lexus is a generic brand (of Toyota) with generic cars, the ES model is a rebadged Camry, the GS is sold as a Toyota in Japan, as is the LS. The LX is a rebadged Toyota truck.
- Lexus admids to benchmarking its cars against BMW, MB and Audi. You only do that if someone is better than you. If you set the standards, others benchmark against your cars.
To support my statement that the Japanese don't innovate, look at the following key car technologies of the last 30 years:
- ABS brakes (Bosch and MB)
- All wheel drive for cars (Audi)
- Airbags (GM and MB)
- Safety cage (Volvo, MB)
- ESP (Bosch and MB)
- Xenon headlights
- ...
With regards to the two cars specifically, here's what differentiates them:
- all-wheel vs. front-wheel drive
- size
- interior design (the Audi is way nicer, pretty much anyone in the automotive business uses Audi as the benchmark for interiors), the Lexus looks like a nice Toyota inside
- Safety (the Audi has the highest possible safety rating from the government), Audi has front and rear head airbags
- Tiptronic in the Audi
- much more I probably don't know since I don't know all the details about Lexus cars
You did come to the Audi forum, so I guess you didn't expect anyone to root for the GS, did you?
2000 A8L
2001 TTRQ
Pro Japanese:
- Their cars are usually very reliable
- That's it really
Con Japanese:
- Their cars are reliable because they don't innovate, they copy and perfect things
- Their styling is usually very bland, the original LS400 (now 430) is pretty much a copy of the pre-1992 (W126) Mercedes S-class. Look at both models and you'll see what I mean. The SC is a pretty bland copy of the TT styling.
- Lexus is a generic brand (of Toyota) with generic cars, the ES model is a rebadged Camry, the GS is sold as a Toyota in Japan, as is the LS. The LX is a rebadged Toyota truck.
- Lexus admids to benchmarking its cars against BMW, MB and Audi. You only do that if someone is better than you. If you set the standards, others benchmark against your cars.
To support my statement that the Japanese don't innovate, look at the following key car technologies of the last 30 years:
- ABS brakes (Bosch and MB)
- All wheel drive for cars (Audi)
- Airbags (GM and MB)
- Safety cage (Volvo, MB)
- ESP (Bosch and MB)
- Xenon headlights
- ...
With regards to the two cars specifically, here's what differentiates them:
- all-wheel vs. front-wheel drive
- size
- interior design (the Audi is way nicer, pretty much anyone in the automotive business uses Audi as the benchmark for interiors), the Lexus looks like a nice Toyota inside
- Safety (the Audi has the highest possible safety rating from the government), Audi has front and rear head airbags
- Tiptronic in the Audi
- much more I probably don't know since I don't know all the details about Lexus cars
You did come to the Audi forum, so I guess you didn't expect anyone to root for the GS, did you?
2000 A8L
2001 TTRQ
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08-06-2003, 10:21 PM
#8
Have you driven both? If so and you still prefer the GS, go for it...
and buy some good winter tires.
My 59k mile A8 may be unusual, but in the last 3000 miles, a front wheel bearing and the thermostat have failed. Neither would hold out until the 60k service. Changing the thermostat requires removing the timing belt from the cam pulleys -- so I may as well replace the belt, for which I am currently waiting. (All the other parts turned by the timing belt have arrived.)
I have driven 230,000 miles in two French cars, but it took the last month in the A8 to make me understand why people buy Japanese cars.
But if you drive the A8, you'll know whether it's right for you. I wouldn't trade mine for any Lexus.
My 59k mile A8 may be unusual, but in the last 3000 miles, a front wheel bearing and the thermostat have failed. Neither would hold out until the 60k service. Changing the thermostat requires removing the timing belt from the cam pulleys -- so I may as well replace the belt, for which I am currently waiting. (All the other parts turned by the timing belt have arrived.)
I have driven 230,000 miles in two French cars, but it took the last month in the A8 to make me understand why people buy Japanese cars.
But if you drive the A8, you'll know whether it's right for you. I wouldn't trade mine for any Lexus.
08-06-2003, 10:54 PM
#9
Historical innovation doesn't excuse premature failure of ordinary components
I'm glad it's not the innovative bits which fail -- who'd want bogus ESP interventions on the freeway?
But when two unrelated low-tech things -- a wheel bearing and the thermostat -- go urgently wrong between 56k and 59k miles, I start to wonder whether European component suppliers get bored with making ordinary parts and just don't care as much as the Japanese makers about ongoing, rigorous, scientific efforts at improvement.
But when two unrelated low-tech things -- a wheel bearing and the thermostat -- go urgently wrong between 56k and 59k miles, I start to wonder whether European component suppliers get bored with making ordinary parts and just don't care as much as the Japanese makers about ongoing, rigorous, scientific efforts at improvement.
08-07-2003, 05:27 AM
#10
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I think your situation is unusual
and I don't think the timing belt needs to be reomved for a thermostat.Water pump yes thermosat no.Replacing thermostat should be a $200 job.Timing belt is probably closer to $1000.I think someone is trying to get you to buy a timing belt.Considering what the shop told you about themostat and timing belt.I would wonder if you even have thermostat problem at all.I would want a second opinion.