Are the A8s Built Better?
09-21-2011, 03:58 AM
#11
Hello silverD2,
So really, this thread has boiled down to two different arguements:
1. The A8 being a higher level of quality and construction versus cheaper Audi models; and
2. The Mercedes W140 S-Class vs the D2 A8...how comparable are they?
I will agree with you that the A8 outhandles the W140 S-Class. I will go so far as to say the A8 is the driver's car here, but I will not say the S-Class of those years is not a driver's car. I think it is distasteful to compare the W140 to any Cadillac. Of course the A8 is lighter than the S-Class as it is physically much smaller. The A8's aluminum space frame is a marvel...and yet the A8 is still heavier than an A6, even with the 4.2L. And in a standard A8, there is no more room in the back seat than an A6 of the same year.
The brakes on the A8 are single-piston sliding calipers, front and rear. The brakes on the W140 Benz are monoblock 4-piston front and 2-piston rear. I was shocked when I realized the A8 had these "cheap" caliper designs. Even Saabs and Volvo's have dual-piston sliding calipers.
Suspension control arms are all but identical parts (on the front at least) between the A6's and A8's.
There is virtually no difference between the "quattro" systems of the A4, A6, and A8. The A6 and A8 share the same transmission / Tiptronic system.
The A6 uses a similar "servotronic" steering rack system as the A8.
So honestly, aside from the chassis, I don't see many differences between at least the A6's and A8's. I really think it is the old adage of "3 sausages, just different lengths."
The A8 has some incredible areas of fit and finish...I'm really impressed at the construction of the rear center armrest, for example. Normally a cheap component even in a big-dollar car; the A8 has polished articulating hinges and aluminum finish on the cupholders. Even the first-aid kit compartment has a velvet-lined interior.
Of course, you might ask why the A6 / allroad models have 2 additional gauges in the cluster that the A8 lacks, being the more expensive car?
Back to the w140...more engineering hours and dollars went into that machine than probably any other road-going car. Possibly more even than a Veyron...there are so many details on that car that are lost on the average owner or even enthusiast. Its absolutely incredible.
I'm glad you're passionate about the A8. Its an incredible car. I'm equally as passionate about the superiority of European cars over cars of all other nationalities.
So really, this thread has boiled down to two different arguements:
1. The A8 being a higher level of quality and construction versus cheaper Audi models; and
2. The Mercedes W140 S-Class vs the D2 A8...how comparable are they?
I will agree with you that the A8 outhandles the W140 S-Class. I will go so far as to say the A8 is the driver's car here, but I will not say the S-Class of those years is not a driver's car. I think it is distasteful to compare the W140 to any Cadillac. Of course the A8 is lighter than the S-Class as it is physically much smaller. The A8's aluminum space frame is a marvel...and yet the A8 is still heavier than an A6, even with the 4.2L. And in a standard A8, there is no more room in the back seat than an A6 of the same year.
The brakes on the A8 are single-piston sliding calipers, front and rear. The brakes on the W140 Benz are monoblock 4-piston front and 2-piston rear. I was shocked when I realized the A8 had these "cheap" caliper designs. Even Saabs and Volvo's have dual-piston sliding calipers.
Suspension control arms are all but identical parts (on the front at least) between the A6's and A8's.
There is virtually no difference between the "quattro" systems of the A4, A6, and A8. The A6 and A8 share the same transmission / Tiptronic system.
The A6 uses a similar "servotronic" steering rack system as the A8.
So honestly, aside from the chassis, I don't see many differences between at least the A6's and A8's. I really think it is the old adage of "3 sausages, just different lengths."
The A8 has some incredible areas of fit and finish...I'm really impressed at the construction of the rear center armrest, for example. Normally a cheap component even in a big-dollar car; the A8 has polished articulating hinges and aluminum finish on the cupholders. Even the first-aid kit compartment has a velvet-lined interior.
Of course, you might ask why the A6 / allroad models have 2 additional gauges in the cluster that the A8 lacks, being the more expensive car?
Back to the w140...more engineering hours and dollars went into that machine than probably any other road-going car. Possibly more even than a Veyron...there are so many details on that car that are lost on the average owner or even enthusiast. Its absolutely incredible.
I'm glad you're passionate about the A8. Its an incredible car. I'm equally as passionate about the superiority of European cars over cars of all other nationalities.
09-21-2011, 04:28 AM
#12
AudiWorld Super User
Hello silverD2,
So really, this thread has boiled down to two different arguements:
1. The A8 being a higher level of quality and construction versus cheaper Audi models; and
2. The Mercedes W140 S-Class vs the D2 A8...how comparable are they?
I will agree with you that the A8 outhandles the W140 S-Class. I will go so far as to say the A8 is the driver's car here, but I will not say the S-Class of those years is not a driver's car. I think it is distasteful to compare the W140 to any Cadillac. Of course the A8 is lighter than the S-Class as it is physically much smaller. The A8's aluminum space frame is a marvel...and yet the A8 is still heavier than an A6, even with the 4.2L. And in a standard A8, there is no more room in the back seat than an A6 of the same year.
The brakes on the A8 are single-piston sliding calipers, front and rear. The brakes on the W140 Benz are monoblock 4-piston front and 2-piston rear. I was shocked when I realized the A8 had these "cheap" caliper designs. Even Saabs and Volvo's have dual-piston sliding calipers.
Suspension control arms are all but identical parts (on the front at least) between the A6's and A8's.
There is virtually no difference between the "quattro" systems of the A4, A6, and A8. The A6 and A8 share the same transmission / Tiptronic system.
The A6 uses a similar "servotronic" steering rack system as the A8.
So honestly, aside from the chassis, I don't see many differences between at least the A6's and A8's. I really think it is the old adage of "3 sausages, just different lengths."
The A8 has some incredible areas of fit and finish...I'm really impressed at the construction of the rear center armrest, for example. Normally a cheap component even in a big-dollar car; the A8 has polished articulating hinges and aluminum finish on the cupholders. Even the first-aid kit compartment has a velvet-lined interior.
Of course, you might ask why the A6 / allroad models have 2 additional gauges in the cluster that the A8 lacks, being the more expensive car?
Back to the w140...more engineering hours and dollars went into that machine than probably any other road-going car. Possibly more even than a Veyron...there are so many details on that car that are lost on the average owner or even enthusiast. Its absolutely incredible.
I'm glad you're passionate about the A8. Its an incredible car. I'm equally as passionate about the superiority of European cars over cars of all other nationalities.
So really, this thread has boiled down to two different arguements:
1. The A8 being a higher level of quality and construction versus cheaper Audi models; and
2. The Mercedes W140 S-Class vs the D2 A8...how comparable are they?
I will agree with you that the A8 outhandles the W140 S-Class. I will go so far as to say the A8 is the driver's car here, but I will not say the S-Class of those years is not a driver's car. I think it is distasteful to compare the W140 to any Cadillac. Of course the A8 is lighter than the S-Class as it is physically much smaller. The A8's aluminum space frame is a marvel...and yet the A8 is still heavier than an A6, even with the 4.2L. And in a standard A8, there is no more room in the back seat than an A6 of the same year.
The brakes on the A8 are single-piston sliding calipers, front and rear. The brakes on the W140 Benz are monoblock 4-piston front and 2-piston rear. I was shocked when I realized the A8 had these "cheap" caliper designs. Even Saabs and Volvo's have dual-piston sliding calipers.
Suspension control arms are all but identical parts (on the front at least) between the A6's and A8's.
There is virtually no difference between the "quattro" systems of the A4, A6, and A8. The A6 and A8 share the same transmission / Tiptronic system.
The A6 uses a similar "servotronic" steering rack system as the A8.
So honestly, aside from the chassis, I don't see many differences between at least the A6's and A8's. I really think it is the old adage of "3 sausages, just different lengths."
The A8 has some incredible areas of fit and finish...I'm really impressed at the construction of the rear center armrest, for example. Normally a cheap component even in a big-dollar car; the A8 has polished articulating hinges and aluminum finish on the cupholders. Even the first-aid kit compartment has a velvet-lined interior.
Of course, you might ask why the A6 / allroad models have 2 additional gauges in the cluster that the A8 lacks, being the more expensive car?
Back to the w140...more engineering hours and dollars went into that machine than probably any other road-going car. Possibly more even than a Veyron...there are so many details on that car that are lost on the average owner or even enthusiast. Its absolutely incredible.
I'm glad you're passionate about the A8. Its an incredible car. I'm equally as passionate about the superiority of European cars over cars of all other nationalities.
I'm disappointed to read someone who otherwise appears intelligent stating something so untrue as: "A car is nothing but the sum of it's parts".
Cheap brakes, my ***! I've had both types (last 3 cars were Porsche's)...Wow..you are obviously not a mechanic...just read a lot I guess ...useless without real world practice. Way more than enough brake for a car this heavy and highest of quality and trouble free...the Porsche front 4 piston solids were good, but these are better in maintenance and operation.
A8's weight compared to an A6 has nothing to do with the A8's superior rigidity and light-footed handling regardless of it's weight...Wow again...I must assume that you've never driven a C5 A6...or you have what I call a (forgive me) "tin ***" and just can't feel the difference.
S Class MB ARE indeed German Cadillac's...take that any way you like...you didn't design and build them, so that insult is for a company infamous for bad decisions...in business and design. The interiors, especially, look and feel way more like a Caddy to me than ANY German car I've been in. Comparing ANY MB to a Veyron!? ...OH MY GOD.
In real world experience, I've found MB to be of generally lower quality in appearance and practice than modern top of the line Audi's...including later S & SL class...I could right a book, just from owners & cars I personally know.
THIS is a D2 forum...D2 owners look here for help with and discussion about their cars. Perspective owners look here for opinion from current owners and knowledgeable mechanics. If their is a "Devil's Advocate" section of AudiWorld forums, that is where this discussion belongs...and I would happily vote for your appointment as moderator of that section.
Peace & Cheers.....they're "just" cars....or are they?
Last edited by silverd2; 09-21-2011 at 04:31 AM.
09-21-2011, 04:46 AM
#13
Fine, I'm not meaning to be argumentative. I have worked on cars all my life, but no, I'm not a mechanic by trade. I'm definitely not anti-A8, I really am impressed with the car on many fronts. Yes I have had experience with the A6's, and to a lesser extent, the A4's. I didn't say the A8's brakes are inadequate; but they are indeed the cheapest form of a disc brake caliper to manufacture. Perhaps they weigh less, maybe that is the justification?
A84Nate, sorry to somewhat hijack your original question. Good luck with your quest to get back to another German car; I hope its an A8!
A84Nate, sorry to somewhat hijack your original question. Good luck with your quest to get back to another German car; I hope its an A8!
09-21-2011, 02:54 PM
#14
AudiWorld Super User
Fine, I'm not meaning to be argumentative. I have worked on cars all my life, but no, I'm not a mechanic by trade. I'm definitely not anti-A8, I really am impressed with the car on many fronts. Yes I have had experience with the A6's, and to a lesser extent, the A4's. I didn't say the A8's brakes are inadequate; but they are indeed the cheapest form of a disc brake caliper to manufacture. Perhaps they weigh less, maybe that is the justification?
A84Nate, sorry to somewhat hijack your original question. Good luck with your quest to get back to another German car; I hope its an A8!
A84Nate, sorry to somewhat hijack your original question. Good luck with your quest to get back to another German car; I hope its an A8!
In fairness and to clarify: I am not a mechanic by trade. For years now, I'm actually a full time photographer. I put a different definition to "mechanic" than most, I suppose...and many other disciplines (not professions, necessarily).
My only "formal" mechanic (paid for) training is in camera repair and was a photo-equipment tech for years, a LONG time ago (still do all my own photo studio equipment repairs...all mechanical film cameras). Anyway, I jumped from tiny camera mechanism repairs to years of Aerial Tramway maintenance...VERY large machine room and tower equipment...electrical, diesel back-up, hydraulics, mechanical, etc...including company vehicles, all American and Japanese unfortunately.
Other than a few warranty periods, have always done all my own maintenance & repairs to all my vehicles (all German)...EVERYTHING, except auto trans rebuild...including manual trans rebuild, repair $ improvement (clutches, diffs, etc..)...motor rebuilds down to the crank...you name it...all good fun and fascinating. Also the same for countless friends cars of all makes...many German...many of those MB. I don't hate MB, but don't want one, any more than I want a BMW...just not overly impressed with them, but regardless of "dependability" statistics, would take either over ANY Asian or American car...the German build and driving philosophy matches what I want, but among German cars, I am only truly happy with the family of VW-Porsche-Audi...we understand each other, like each other...simpatico.
Have always done ALL home repairs to appliances, plumbing, electrical, etc...too.
So, I like to call myself a mechanic..."advanced shade-tree stunt mechanic" if you will
...no fear of the tough jobs. Timing belts, suspension work, etc are mostly child's play...WITH a manual!! I can NOT stress that enough to everyone...even when detailed advice might be needed from those who've done the job before, if you don't have a manual (Bentley or equiv), you do NOT have the proper tools to be doing your own work.
Cheers
Last edited by silverd2; 09-21-2011 at 03:41 PM.
09-22-2011, 04:46 AM
#15
I guess you could call me a similar mechanic...maybe not quite to your level. I'm an IT manager...so I work on computers and networks and databases. In all honesty the most I've done is replace head gaskets; I've never had the need to dig more than that...except on small engines. I operate a small landscaping business outside my regular job, so I've had apart my fair share of Honda's, Kawasaki's, Kohler's, Briggs, and even Subaru singles and v-twins.
Done lots of brake jobs, ball joints, axle shafts, spark plugs, sensors, and a few timing belts. Mainly my old Range Rover keeps me busy. Plenty of electrical work, replaced the entire interior, installed new suspension, lift work, ABS work, the somewhat complex Rover swivel-ball sealed hubs, axle work, and the current project is swapping in a military Land Rover transfer case to replace my Borg Warner with a snapped chain.
Mainly what I like about working on European cars is the interesting way things are done. The VR6 engine is an awesome engineering solution. I love the sometimes overly complex systems, such as the pneumatic central locking system in the Audi and older Benzes (although admittedly the A8's is quieter than the E320's). I love all the small touches you find on the Audi like lighting in the rear door ash trays, having only one footwell lamp illuminate when each respective door is opened, etc...i could go on and on.
Done lots of brake jobs, ball joints, axle shafts, spark plugs, sensors, and a few timing belts. Mainly my old Range Rover keeps me busy. Plenty of electrical work, replaced the entire interior, installed new suspension, lift work, ABS work, the somewhat complex Rover swivel-ball sealed hubs, axle work, and the current project is swapping in a military Land Rover transfer case to replace my Borg Warner with a snapped chain.
Mainly what I like about working on European cars is the interesting way things are done. The VR6 engine is an awesome engineering solution. I love the sometimes overly complex systems, such as the pneumatic central locking system in the Audi and older Benzes (although admittedly the A8's is quieter than the E320's). I love all the small touches you find on the Audi like lighting in the rear door ash trays, having only one footwell lamp illuminate when each respective door is opened, etc...i could go on and on.
09-29-2011, 05:40 PM
#16
AudiWorld Member
Sad to say my 02' F150 with 170K is the most reliable transportation I have ever owned.
It doesn't use or leak any fluids and my last repair was replacing the wiper blades and gas cap to pass inspection and it's a truck I use to pay the rent, hauling oil field equipment all over the country. My other truck is a 1 ton Dodge w/40' Goose Neck Trailer for the same purpose. Road Ranger 6406 Transmission turned it into perpetual motion device.
BUT.. I'm infatuated with my 99' A8. What a ride. I used to own a garage and had the pleasure of maintaining an A8 in 03' and enjoyed the experience to its fullest.
After my 66' 911S, nothing I've ever owned has the handling and overall superior engineering of the A8 (i wish i could afford a newer example).
As for reliability, if I wasn't a wrench (A&P too), I would have to reconsider owning the A8.
I have enjoyed the experience and it is a kick to drive (like nothing else).
pc
It doesn't use or leak any fluids and my last repair was replacing the wiper blades and gas cap to pass inspection and it's a truck I use to pay the rent, hauling oil field equipment all over the country. My other truck is a 1 ton Dodge w/40' Goose Neck Trailer for the same purpose. Road Ranger 6406 Transmission turned it into perpetual motion device.
BUT.. I'm infatuated with my 99' A8. What a ride. I used to own a garage and had the pleasure of maintaining an A8 in 03' and enjoyed the experience to its fullest.
After my 66' 911S, nothing I've ever owned has the handling and overall superior engineering of the A8 (i wish i could afford a newer example).
As for reliability, if I wasn't a wrench (A&P too), I would have to reconsider owning the A8.
I have enjoyed the experience and it is a kick to drive (like nothing else).
pc
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