Automobile Mag Comparo: Audi's new A8 vs. BMW745i vs. MB S500
11-11-2002, 07:14 AM
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Automobile Mag Comparo: Audi's new A8 vs. BMW745i vs. MB S500
Excerpt from Automobile Magazine (Dec 2002) article "Light on its Feet"
""THE RIDE OF THE VALKYRIES
How does Audi's new A8 fare against its Teutonic rivals, Mercedes-Benz's S500 and BMW's 745i?
Luxury car buyers are a conservative bunch, so they probably will welcome the second generation A8 more warmly than they did the radical BMW 745i. They will hardly be affected by the latest revisions to the Mercedes-Benz S-Class, which address quality concerns and add the option of 4-Matic all-wheel-drive.
Dimensionally, the three cars are very similar, although the Audi has the widest track, the largest fuel tank and the lowest weight. It also has the lowest drag coefficient, at 0.27. The three engines are only 28 horsepower and 22 pounds-feet apart. The Audi V-8 leads the pack with 330 horsepower, followed by the 325-horsepower, 4.4-liter V-8 from BMW and the 302-horsepower, 5.0-liter V-8 from Mercedes-Benz. In the torque department, this ranking is reversed. The 745i is swiftest to 60 mph, at a claimed 5.9 seconds. The Mercedes makes the sprint in 6.1 seconds, and the Audi requires about 6.2 seconds.
The A8 and the 745i are fitted with six-speed automatic transmissions. The S500 driver still must do with only 5 gears, which calls for higher revs and results in rougher shifts under pressure. On the other hand, the Mercedes manual shift feature--nudging the lever left or right while in the Drive position--is the most convenient here.
The 7-series uses a full array of electronic trickery for its chassis, including Active Roll Stabilization and Electronic Damping Control. The A8 offers an excellent multisetting air suspension paired with Quattro all-wheel drive. Although the S500 can be had with Mercedes' Active Body Control, the system is currently incompatible with the newly available 4Matic.
The 7-series is the most entertaining of these three cars. It has the sweetest steering and the most balanced suspension. Although it can't muster quite the same ultimate grip and traction as the new A8, the 745i can be driven in a beautifully progressive and rewarding manner.
But if you lack patience, the less user-friendly nature of the BMW will get on your nerves. Switching off the stability control and engaging the sporty damper setting is a major procedure, and getting used to the switchgear in general--and to the iDrive in particular--is hardwork. Added to which, we aren't fond of this car's confusing center console and seat controls and its silly keyfob-***-starter-button combination.
The facelifted S-class has at long last closed the interior-quality gap, especially when it is equipped with the optional Designo treatment. Equipped like this, the S500 now looks and feels like the Maybach's legitimate baby brother.
After more than 1000 miles, we started adding up the pros and cons. Much as we like the way the BMW drives, the car polarizes opinion. Some of us are prepared to put up with iDrive and the funky new instrument panel, but most of us are not. We suspect BMW is having trouble persuading its older, most conservative clientele that the iDrive setup is the best thing since beer and bratwurst. If you are after status and resale value and don't care about honking down canyon roads, then the S500 makes a good case for itself. Although S500's 4Matic seems like overkill, a major selling point of the A8 traditionally has been its Quattro system, especially in the snow-prone states.
In the end, the Audi takes the trophy simply because it makes the fewest mistakes. If the S-Class stands for classic luxury and the 7 series exemplifies alternative luxury, then the new A8 must be synonymous with modern intelligent luxury.""
FROM MAIN ARTICLE:
""On the road, Audi's new flagship is surprisingly nimble, behaving more like a big-engined A6 than like an evolution of that previous A8. It is precise and responsive and remains entertaining all the way to the limit... the new A8 is more chuckable and harder edged than the old car
If you enjoyed the old S8, you will particularly appreciate the new A8's Dynamic suspension mode; it lowers the ride height and tamps down the body in the twisties... (the A8) suffers from steering that needs more weight, too much initial turn-in under steer, and a tendency to run wide at the limit. On the credit side, the A8 has extremely energetic brakes and plenty of grip...
The new A8 is a supremely competent, utterly complete premium luxury sedan. It sounds great, goes fast, and is terrifically entertaining when the pavement begins to curve. When the car arrives on American roads, it will almost certainly raise Audi's profile in this rarefied market segment. Moreover, the second generation of the high-performance S8 is sure to widen the eyes of more than a few well-heeled shoppers when it arrives a year or so later.""
AoA should quickly bring in the short-wheel base A8 to compete with the new MB E500, which has the same S500's engine and many of its features but with a more sporty exhaust sound. AoA will lose their window of opportunity again if they wait too long.
Mercedes made smart facelift changes to the S500's headlights (the group picture in the article suggests that the S500 still has the best-looking front design IMO).
The new A8's designers must have chortled when they realized that the BMW 7 series would have a Banglehumped design. And then took the "safe road" by "subduing" the A8's exterior design to appeal to the older, conservative buyers that BMW may have lost. Pity that they didn't take a few more risks and include some of the exterior flair of the beautiful "A8" Avantissimo now in cold storage, or even a few more of its interior features (... perhaps in future). For example, aspects of the Avantissimo's grille, unique headlight styling, shapely hood and power could have been easily modified and incorporated. I wouldn't be surprised if the grille and headlights are being kept for the 2006 mid-season facelift.
Of course, this is simply MHO. To each his or her own. What is perceived as beautiful and what is perceived as ugly is just that - individual perception. That's why a few people in a huge crowd are likely to prefer a child's stick drawing to the Mona Lisa painting. Individual perception is determined by an individual's mindset (mentality) filters. Such attitude filters can impede the acceptance of information (and therefore decisions on what's "nice"). So I am sure that there will be some high-end luxury buyers (including genuine or counterfeit Germans) who may consider the Avantissimo an expression of hideousness... and some will perceive the new A8 as a work of penultimate beauty that is anything but bland, boring, safe and conservative. If this mindset truly represents the high-end luxury buyer segment that Audi is going after (beyond just appealing to existing Audi/A8 owners) , then Audi's less-risky approach will be bang on its money. The question is whether the new A8's design will prove sufficient to appeal to the optimal range of potential customers.
If you haven't already seen the Avantissimo in a VIDEO, click below.
""THE RIDE OF THE VALKYRIES
How does Audi's new A8 fare against its Teutonic rivals, Mercedes-Benz's S500 and BMW's 745i?
Luxury car buyers are a conservative bunch, so they probably will welcome the second generation A8 more warmly than they did the radical BMW 745i. They will hardly be affected by the latest revisions to the Mercedes-Benz S-Class, which address quality concerns and add the option of 4-Matic all-wheel-drive.
Dimensionally, the three cars are very similar, although the Audi has the widest track, the largest fuel tank and the lowest weight. It also has the lowest drag coefficient, at 0.27. The three engines are only 28 horsepower and 22 pounds-feet apart. The Audi V-8 leads the pack with 330 horsepower, followed by the 325-horsepower, 4.4-liter V-8 from BMW and the 302-horsepower, 5.0-liter V-8 from Mercedes-Benz. In the torque department, this ranking is reversed. The 745i is swiftest to 60 mph, at a claimed 5.9 seconds. The Mercedes makes the sprint in 6.1 seconds, and the Audi requires about 6.2 seconds.
The A8 and the 745i are fitted with six-speed automatic transmissions. The S500 driver still must do with only 5 gears, which calls for higher revs and results in rougher shifts under pressure. On the other hand, the Mercedes manual shift feature--nudging the lever left or right while in the Drive position--is the most convenient here.
The 7-series uses a full array of electronic trickery for its chassis, including Active Roll Stabilization and Electronic Damping Control. The A8 offers an excellent multisetting air suspension paired with Quattro all-wheel drive. Although the S500 can be had with Mercedes' Active Body Control, the system is currently incompatible with the newly available 4Matic.
The 7-series is the most entertaining of these three cars. It has the sweetest steering and the most balanced suspension. Although it can't muster quite the same ultimate grip and traction as the new A8, the 745i can be driven in a beautifully progressive and rewarding manner.
But if you lack patience, the less user-friendly nature of the BMW will get on your nerves. Switching off the stability control and engaging the sporty damper setting is a major procedure, and getting used to the switchgear in general--and to the iDrive in particular--is hardwork. Added to which, we aren't fond of this car's confusing center console and seat controls and its silly keyfob-***-starter-button combination.
The facelifted S-class has at long last closed the interior-quality gap, especially when it is equipped with the optional Designo treatment. Equipped like this, the S500 now looks and feels like the Maybach's legitimate baby brother.
After more than 1000 miles, we started adding up the pros and cons. Much as we like the way the BMW drives, the car polarizes opinion. Some of us are prepared to put up with iDrive and the funky new instrument panel, but most of us are not. We suspect BMW is having trouble persuading its older, most conservative clientele that the iDrive setup is the best thing since beer and bratwurst. If you are after status and resale value and don't care about honking down canyon roads, then the S500 makes a good case for itself. Although S500's 4Matic seems like overkill, a major selling point of the A8 traditionally has been its Quattro system, especially in the snow-prone states.
In the end, the Audi takes the trophy simply because it makes the fewest mistakes. If the S-Class stands for classic luxury and the 7 series exemplifies alternative luxury, then the new A8 must be synonymous with modern intelligent luxury.""
FROM MAIN ARTICLE:
""On the road, Audi's new flagship is surprisingly nimble, behaving more like a big-engined A6 than like an evolution of that previous A8. It is precise and responsive and remains entertaining all the way to the limit... the new A8 is more chuckable and harder edged than the old car
If you enjoyed the old S8, you will particularly appreciate the new A8's Dynamic suspension mode; it lowers the ride height and tamps down the body in the twisties... (the A8) suffers from steering that needs more weight, too much initial turn-in under steer, and a tendency to run wide at the limit. On the credit side, the A8 has extremely energetic brakes and plenty of grip...
The new A8 is a supremely competent, utterly complete premium luxury sedan. It sounds great, goes fast, and is terrifically entertaining when the pavement begins to curve. When the car arrives on American roads, it will almost certainly raise Audi's profile in this rarefied market segment. Moreover, the second generation of the high-performance S8 is sure to widen the eyes of more than a few well-heeled shoppers when it arrives a year or so later.""
AoA should quickly bring in the short-wheel base A8 to compete with the new MB E500, which has the same S500's engine and many of its features but with a more sporty exhaust sound. AoA will lose their window of opportunity again if they wait too long.
Mercedes made smart facelift changes to the S500's headlights (the group picture in the article suggests that the S500 still has the best-looking front design IMO).
The new A8's designers must have chortled when they realized that the BMW 7 series would have a Banglehumped design. And then took the "safe road" by "subduing" the A8's exterior design to appeal to the older, conservative buyers that BMW may have lost. Pity that they didn't take a few more risks and include some of the exterior flair of the beautiful "A8" Avantissimo now in cold storage, or even a few more of its interior features (... perhaps in future). For example, aspects of the Avantissimo's grille, unique headlight styling, shapely hood and power could have been easily modified and incorporated. I wouldn't be surprised if the grille and headlights are being kept for the 2006 mid-season facelift.
Of course, this is simply MHO. To each his or her own. What is perceived as beautiful and what is perceived as ugly is just that - individual perception. That's why a few people in a huge crowd are likely to prefer a child's stick drawing to the Mona Lisa painting. Individual perception is determined by an individual's mindset (mentality) filters. Such attitude filters can impede the acceptance of information (and therefore decisions on what's "nice"). So I am sure that there will be some high-end luxury buyers (including genuine or counterfeit Germans) who may consider the Avantissimo an expression of hideousness... and some will perceive the new A8 as a work of penultimate beauty that is anything but bland, boring, safe and conservative. If this mindset truly represents the high-end luxury buyer segment that Audi is going after (beyond just appealing to existing Audi/A8 owners) , then Audi's less-risky approach will be bang on its money. The question is whether the new A8's design will prove sufficient to appeal to the optimal range of potential customers.
If you haven't already seen the Avantissimo in a VIDEO, click below.
11-12-2002, 04:04 AM
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The Avantissimo is 50x uglier than the 7 Series
By contrast, the new A8 and the Phaeton are far nicer than both the Avantissimo and 7 Series. Just MHO. Yes, the Phaeton has grown on me a lot over the last few months. However, I still like the new A8 better than the Phaeton.
11-13-2002, 07:02 AM
#6
Avantissimo ! ! ! Dis-Avantagetissimo
Why does everyone love the styling of an over rounded "station-wagon"? Realizing all the technology is getting in the new A8, why do certain people want the A8/S8 to go the way of the A6 and the AllRoad styling? It's beyond me !
11-13-2002, 07:50 AM
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Some articles commented that this new A8 is sometimes mistaken for the current A6.
One article said Audi wanted to keep the A8 consistent with the current shapely family styling initiated by the current A6 and followed by the 2002 A4. The next A6 (2004) is expected to introduce the next generation styling. See my post in the A6 forum for a possible picture (anybody's guess if this is it).
I agree with your sentiment completely. I would prefer the A8 to have its own distinctive styling, perhaps even to have "introduced" the next generation in styling.
Certainly not the Allroad styling (altho you could look at the new A8's headlights and say maybe)... but that's MHO
Certainly not the overall styling of the Avantissimo (perhaps too bulky and long and rounded looking)... but that's also MHO
However, most objective journalists and non-Audi owners loved a number of the Avantissimo's unique features (e.g., the grille styling, headlight design and hood shape). The Avantissimo caused quite a bit of Audiadvantageousimmo excitement at the Auto shows last year. Many had been expecting the new A8 to develop on those styling cues, even on Audi forums.
In any case, the A8 does seem have some of the technology, interior design (steering wheel, MMI area), rear tailights, etc (of some version of these) from the unique and expensive-looking Avantissimo.
I agree with your sentiment completely. I would prefer the A8 to have its own distinctive styling, perhaps even to have "introduced" the next generation in styling.
Certainly not the Allroad styling (altho you could look at the new A8's headlights and say maybe)... but that's MHO
Certainly not the overall styling of the Avantissimo (perhaps too bulky and long and rounded looking)... but that's also MHO
However, most objective journalists and non-Audi owners loved a number of the Avantissimo's unique features (e.g., the grille styling, headlight design and hood shape). The Avantissimo caused quite a bit of Audiadvantageousimmo excitement at the Auto shows last year. Many had been expecting the new A8 to develop on those styling cues, even on Audi forums.
In any case, the A8 does seem have some of the technology, interior design (steering wheel, MMI area), rear tailights, etc (of some version of these) from the unique and expensive-looking Avantissimo.
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