Wahaudi

What started out as a bit of a rough idle got very rough 2 days later while cruising at highway speeds. The car started bucking and the "check engine" light came on. I pulled over and called the dealer. He said as long as the light stayed on and was not flashing, I could drive it in if it felt driveable. After a restart, it ran ok (except for idle) so I headed to the dealer (light still on.) They were able to scare up an A6 loaner so I left it and was gone. When I thought about it, I began wondering if maybe the fuel filter was clogged. So the next day I called to suggest a fuel line check and let them know I had filled up at an Amoco station the night before the rough idle started. They pulled a couple of plugs and found a lot of carbon build-up. The dealer volunteered that they had other problems with Amoco and that the local Mercedes dealer was telling their customers to avoid that brand. Anyone else had problems with their gas? They then drained the tank (and kept a sample for me to show the station). The gas was almost clear, no color at all and barely smelled of gas. Weird stuff. I'll be talking to the Amoco manager.

The dealer recommended Wynn's treatment to take care of the carbon build-up. Again saying that was caused by regular use of the "bad" gas. Also an oil change (I had them use Mobil-1). While working on this problem, they noticed the water pump was leaking. This prompted them to check the timing belt. Good thing - they said it was in bad shape, almost shredding. Could have been caused be the leaky pump. Oh, and since they were replacing all this stuff, they went ahead and put on a new serpentine belt and replaced a few bad hoses. All of this on a '97 with 60,000 miles and Audi assured -- less than 3 weeks after they did the 60,000 mile service. Final cost = $1908.00

Several questions.
1) Am I a total fool and getting taken for a ride?
2) Is the "bad fuel" legit? If so, do I have any recourse with Amoco?
3) Is Wynn's any good or just an expensive mystery solvent?
4) Shouldn't some of this been discovered during the most recent service?

Finally, the car still isn't idling smooth. They said it may need a tank or two of injector cleaner treatment to finally cure itself. And now I'm noticing other odd noises in the engine...like maybe an exhaust/manifold leak.

Any insights...?

PaulW

First of all, you have several seperate problems but the dealer sounded like they were treating them as one.

Your symptoms sound like a bad coil pack (the thing that fires the spark plug) or someway that the thing isn't getting fired, causing one cylinder to miss or not fire completely.

When you have a check engine light on, that means that there is a stored fault code with the engine. Did they tell you what the fault code is?

This would lead you to the problem with the engine misfiring.

A lot of people talk about bad gas, personally, I've only run into bad gas once in my life, and that was because it was left in a boat with the tank 1/8 full for the off season with the gas cap cracked causing a lot of oxidation. I don't think Amoco could go on for long selling bad gas. I just think people say that....but that's just my opinion, not based on any facts.

Gas is almost clear and it sounds like there were no contaminates in it. Put it in your snow blower or lawnmower, bet it works just fine. Or send it out for analysis, that will really tell you if it is bad (highly doubt it is).

Back to your missing problem, I could almost guarantee you that it's a faulty component in the fuel injection or ignition system or computer that controls it (my guess is ignition). However, without the fault code, you'll never know. With it, you'll know exactly what could cause it by going to the Bently. That's why the A8 is such an easy car to work on.

In regarding to the timing belt, you would of had to have it done sooner or later.

Question: How long have you had your car? If it's more than 6 months and you've never had the low coolant (the red temperature icon) come on, I find it hard to believe that your water pump was leaking. Audi's are so sensitive to low coolant alarms and the only way they get there is when you have a leak. Sooner or later it will go off. If you didn't have a low coolant alarm recently, I doubt the pump was leaking and if it was, it was nothing to worry about.

When we did Skiracer's timing belt change last October, he had 85K miles on his car and this is what his timing belt looked like:

<img src="http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/22012/tb7.jpg">

It was almost in perfect shape with no fraying at all, and we inspected it closely. His car is a 97 too so it is just as old. Not to say that yours wasn't in bad shape, but I find it hard to believe.

$1900 is pretty steep, but in line with a dealer TB change out. Did they replace the water pump? I hope they did.

I'd hate to ask how much the 60K service was, do you know what they did? They should of taken the LH timing belt cover off for a quick inspection of the belt, I guess the dealer forgot that.....opps.....

Were the spark plugs changed?

At least you are set for at least another 60K if not closer to 90K. I have 80K on my timing belt right now and will be doing it in the spring.

skiracer

you couldn't use rubber hoses for coolant lines. I would demand that the dealer give you the parts they replaced for inspection. I, like PaulW, am very skeptical that the timing belt was "almost shredded" at your mileage. A leaky waterpump is not uncommon, but unless it gets really bad or the pump starts to make noise, then leave it alone. As for bad fuel, most of the time reports of bad fuel are the result of the gas station accidentally getting the wrong fuel into a tank- lets say the tanker driver puts diesel into the unleaded tank. That would definitely cause problems, and if you think you have a problem, it may be worth it to have your sample analyzed. Call the station first to see if anyone else has complained. Also get the code(s) from the dealer that they read from your OBDII port that caused the check engine light to come on and post them here- we can let you know what they mean.

john-ks

recommended that my wife not use Amoco because it did not have good lubricating properties and was hard on fuel pumps. At the time she had a 1995 540 bought new in October 1994. Since the most convenient station is a nearby Amoco she kept filling up there.
In late '99 the fuel pump failed at 49,000 miles. The dealer did replace it free even though it was out of warranty. Could be that Amoco is too clean.

WClark

I had thetiming belt replaced twice on my Subaru underwarranty. Once when the front crank oil seal came unstuck and again when antifreeze from a leaking water pump soaked it.

As I understand it, some lighter components from either fluid can soak into the belt via capillary action thru the exposed edges of fiber belt as well as into the rubber itself causing some swelling and this can lead to the belt delaminating. These lighter components are added to both to encourage gasket swelling to prevent leaks. Not a problem with non-moving rubber like a hose or gasket.

Wahaudi

Thanks for the input. I'm still gathering answers to some of your questions. I've talked to the Amoco guy and he assured me that the gas was not the problem. I may need to get the sample analyzed.

Secondly, I'm getting the fault codes from the dealer and have asked for my old parts back.

I've now noticed what I think is an exhaust leak coming from the passenger-side manifold. Guess it's back to the dealer for another adventure.