D2 A8 suspension upgrade - coilovers vs. shocks and springs.
02-21-2004, 01:07 PM
#1
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D2 A8 suspension upgrade - coilovers vs. shocks and springs.
OK, just got done helping billfga do his rear shocks and springs. Thanks to Paul and (whoever had the other procedure - ski?). Couldn't have done it without you. bill will post on that later, I'm sure.
Here's my rather long and complex question:
Lots of folks have done H&R coilovers, street setup (vs. track), and everyone seems quite happy with them, based on the posts I've seen. This solution is about $1500, based on prices I've seen.
bill has an Eibach spring and Bilstein shock setup that is more like $750. Based on an abbreviated test ride, it seems nicely firmer than stock, and lowers about 1-1/4" in back, and something similar in front (bill?).
What does the $750 more for coilovers buy me? A little height adjustability on the coilovers, that I'm unlikely to use? What am I missing here? Did he just get a great deal from a vendor trying to move some dusty stock from a shelf?
Comments please. I've shied away from the coilovers at $1500, just because I'm a cheap bastage, but $750 is getting into near-impulse-purchase range.
Here's my rather long and complex question:
Lots of folks have done H&R coilovers, street setup (vs. track), and everyone seems quite happy with them, based on the posts I've seen. This solution is about $1500, based on prices I've seen.
bill has an Eibach spring and Bilstein shock setup that is more like $750. Based on an abbreviated test ride, it seems nicely firmer than stock, and lowers about 1-1/4" in back, and something similar in front (bill?).
What does the $750 more for coilovers buy me? A little height adjustability on the coilovers, that I'm unlikely to use? What am I missing here? Did he just get a great deal from a vendor trying to move some dusty stock from a shelf?
Comments please. I've shied away from the coilovers at $1500, just because I'm a cheap bastage, but $750 is getting into near-impulse-purchase range.
02-21-2004, 01:12 PM
#2
AudiWorld Super User
Think it depends on the ride
If you rode in my A8 on your twisty stretch you talk about on occassion....you would be amazed.
If you minimize steering inputs and get close to an apex, the car is on rails with the H&R's.
If you have too much steering input (overshooting and then undershooting) nothing is going to handle that well, but the H&R's make the A8 very forgiving.
I would be interested in the Bilstein and new spring route, never rode in a car with that....but if you are looking for performance, I can assure you that you will get it with the H&R's. It's stiffer than the S8.
Like you said, if you are going to do the install yourself, why not spend the money and get the H&R's? They are awesome.
Not to mention they lower the front fender so you can't build a house on it anymore. If the Ebiach springs don't do that, I don't know if I would want to go that way.
pw
If you minimize steering inputs and get close to an apex, the car is on rails with the H&R's.
If you have too much steering input (overshooting and then undershooting) nothing is going to handle that well, but the H&R's make the A8 very forgiving.
I would be interested in the Bilstein and new spring route, never rode in a car with that....but if you are looking for performance, I can assure you that you will get it with the H&R's. It's stiffer than the S8.
Like you said, if you are going to do the install yourself, why not spend the money and get the H&R's? They are awesome.
Not to mention they lower the front fender so you can't build a house on it anymore. If the Ebiach springs don't do that, I don't know if I would want to go that way.
pw
02-21-2004, 01:22 PM
#3
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The Eibachs lower things nicely.
Front is down 1-1/4 or 1-1/2, will have to wait for bill to get on to get the definitive number. Again, backs are 1-1/4.
The car was *much* more taut than mine, but not uncomfortable at all. I need to get another test drive with several full freeway clovers at speed.
The car was *much* more taut than mine, but not uncomfortable at all. I need to get another test drive with several full freeway clovers at speed.
02-21-2004, 01:55 PM
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Bilstein/Eibach part #'s
Jim:
Do you have the part numbers on this set-up and/or supplier used to get these parts ? Was the $750 total price unusually good or the regular price?
THX,
Craig
Do you have the part numbers on this set-up and/or supplier used to get these parts ? Was the $750 total price unusually good or the regular price?
THX,
Craig
02-21-2004, 02:18 PM
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Group purchase
Please keep me posted; I'm definitely interested in this upgrade in the spring. Of course, I'd like to save $750 if we get equivalent street performance. Maybe we can work a deal on a group purchase?
02-21-2004, 02:53 PM
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Bilsteins are about $106 per and I found the springs at the tirerack for $324 so the price looks avg
Eibach Pro-Kit Spring Set for your 1999 Audi A8
Front and Rear fitment
Ride Height: Moderate Lowering
Note: Avg low 1.2"F 1.2"R
For 4.2l AWD Sedan only.
$324.00 (kit)
Estimated Availability: Low Stock
Front and Rear fitment
Ride Height: Moderate Lowering
Note: Avg low 1.2"F 1.2"R
For 4.2l AWD Sedan only.
$324.00 (kit)
Estimated Availability: Low Stock
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02-21-2004, 02:56 PM
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Just curious...
... I've not yet been bit by the track bug, so I can only speak from the perspective of a street driver... that said:
I've noticed that the front end of my A8 will sometimes "scratch" on pavement coming down from an incline, like from elevated parking lot to slanted street. It makes me cringe. Parking blocks are another matter which I've been able to avoid by not pulling all the way into parking spots that have them.
How does the lowered suspension handle the ramp from elevated surfaces? Is it high enough to avoid most of these? Or is it firm enough to stop the suspension "bounce" that may be the actual culprit? And how does it respond to pot-holes that dot the Chicago highway system?
I've noticed that the front end of my A8 will sometimes "scratch" on pavement coming down from an incline, like from elevated parking lot to slanted street. It makes me cringe. Parking blocks are another matter which I've been able to avoid by not pulling all the way into parking spots that have them.
How does the lowered suspension handle the ramp from elevated surfaces? Is it high enough to avoid most of these? Or is it firm enough to stop the suspension "bounce" that may be the actual culprit? And how does it respond to pot-holes that dot the Chicago highway system?
02-22-2004, 08:52 AM
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H&Rs vs S8/Sport>both way better than stock>ride vs roll
Have run both H&R coilovers and Hoppen procured Euro S8/sport suspension on my 99 A8.
I am really enamoured with the S8/sport suspension I am currently running. Great improvement over stock in handling (surprizingly neutral), excellent transitional characterics, reduced roll/dive and a ride that is firmer but not harsh. Have had little problem bottoming out/scraping in a neighborhood with high curbs, nasty speedbumps and lots of road constuction. Excellent street setup but expensive (~$2K plus install) if you go the full route with springs, shocks, swaybars, bushings. I find it handles a little more precisly than my M5 w/ Dinan Stage 3 suspension (may be a factor of the SZ50s being superior to the SP2000s on the M5). Love it.
Had the H&Rs and they were a huge improvement in handling (and looks) from stock. Only the fronts are adustable coilovers due to the rear suspension design. They have an almost gocart feel with sharp/precise turnin and near zero roll/dive. The springs are stiff but the shocks do a remarkable job of providing a reasonable and controlled ride in most in most circumstances. If you look at PaulW (H&R) vs RYoung's(S8) Road Ohio (???)track pictures you can see how flat they corner. A great track set (w/ some adjustability) up that is streetable. At the higher end of adjustablity I got away from clearance issues and the ride comes down to a matter of preference and local roads. Some may find it a little harsh and others find it perfect. I'm getting pretty soft in my old age.
Have not tried Eibach/BilsteinHD on the A8 but have ran Eibach/BilsteinSP on my urS6 Avant mit RS2+ and it was a great improvement over stock and still provided a very reasonable ride. The shocks and springs worked pretty well together but were not as perfectly matched as Audi's S8 suspension (since they were designed seperatly).
Had H&R springs and BilsteinHDs on a previous urS4 and the springs overpowered she shocks somewhat especially on rebound.
Hope this helps, think PaulW may have a copy of a longer comparison I wrote up about a year ago at AudiPages (or you can search).
I you decide you want the H&R's I still have a lightly used set sitting in the garage that would help me purchase a Supersprint exhaust. They would be available at a price comparable to what you were going to spend on the Eibachs/HDs.
Happy Drives,
PaulL
I am really enamoured with the S8/sport suspension I am currently running. Great improvement over stock in handling (surprizingly neutral), excellent transitional characterics, reduced roll/dive and a ride that is firmer but not harsh. Have had little problem bottoming out/scraping in a neighborhood with high curbs, nasty speedbumps and lots of road constuction. Excellent street setup but expensive (~$2K plus install) if you go the full route with springs, shocks, swaybars, bushings. I find it handles a little more precisly than my M5 w/ Dinan Stage 3 suspension (may be a factor of the SZ50s being superior to the SP2000s on the M5). Love it.
Had the H&Rs and they were a huge improvement in handling (and looks) from stock. Only the fronts are adustable coilovers due to the rear suspension design. They have an almost gocart feel with sharp/precise turnin and near zero roll/dive. The springs are stiff but the shocks do a remarkable job of providing a reasonable and controlled ride in most in most circumstances. If you look at PaulW (H&R) vs RYoung's(S8) Road Ohio (???)track pictures you can see how flat they corner. A great track set (w/ some adjustability) up that is streetable. At the higher end of adjustablity I got away from clearance issues and the ride comes down to a matter of preference and local roads. Some may find it a little harsh and others find it perfect. I'm getting pretty soft in my old age.
Have not tried Eibach/BilsteinHD on the A8 but have ran Eibach/BilsteinSP on my urS6 Avant mit RS2+ and it was a great improvement over stock and still provided a very reasonable ride. The shocks and springs worked pretty well together but were not as perfectly matched as Audi's S8 suspension (since they were designed seperatly).
Had H&R springs and BilsteinHDs on a previous urS4 and the springs overpowered she shocks somewhat especially on rebound.
Hope this helps, think PaulW may have a copy of a longer comparison I wrote up about a year ago at AudiPages (or you can search).
I you decide you want the H&R's I still have a lightly used set sitting in the garage that would help me purchase a Supersprint exhaust. They would be available at a price comparable to what you were going to spend on the Eibachs/HDs.
Happy Drives,
PaulL