getting closer
10-20-2004, 06:10 PM
#1
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getting closer
VAG-COM Version: Release 409.0-US
Control Module Part Number: 4D0 907 557 D
Component and/or Version: 4.2L V8/4V MOTR AT D05
Software Coding: 01273
Work Shop Code: WSC 00000
2 Faults Found:
17544 - Fuel Trim: Bank 1 (Add): System too Lean
P1136 - 35-00 - -
17546 - Fuel Trim: Bank 2 (Add): System too Lean
P1138 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent
these are the codes I got but the first one 17544 does not trip the check eng light. 17546 does trip it.. I think after checking through the vag that the heated 02 sensor is shot. I can't even pick it up on the vag nor the reading for the cat. the other side picks up on the vag fine..
example mesuring block
030 reads b2-s1 ok
029 reads nothing just says test off never test. it does test when I clear the check eng light though. then after about 60 miles check eng light and the code 17546 appears..
032 read cat 2 ok
031 reads testing off never gives any results
Just a FYI if you have a 97 a8 q these are the codes for the measuring blocks bently does not match up on all of them..
so it looks like a 02 sensor for bank 2 but bank one everything checks out so the other reason bently gives is oil in gas.. How can that happen? rings maybe?? anyone have ideas on that one.. thanks
Control Module Part Number: 4D0 907 557 D
Component and/or Version: 4.2L V8/4V MOTR AT D05
Software Coding: 01273
Work Shop Code: WSC 00000
2 Faults Found:
17544 - Fuel Trim: Bank 1 (Add): System too Lean
P1136 - 35-00 - -
17546 - Fuel Trim: Bank 2 (Add): System too Lean
P1138 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent
these are the codes I got but the first one 17544 does not trip the check eng light. 17546 does trip it.. I think after checking through the vag that the heated 02 sensor is shot. I can't even pick it up on the vag nor the reading for the cat. the other side picks up on the vag fine..
example mesuring block
030 reads b2-s1 ok
029 reads nothing just says test off never test. it does test when I clear the check eng light though. then after about 60 miles check eng light and the code 17546 appears..
032 read cat 2 ok
031 reads testing off never gives any results
Just a FYI if you have a 97 a8 q these are the codes for the measuring blocks bently does not match up on all of them..
so it looks like a 02 sensor for bank 2 but bank one everything checks out so the other reason bently gives is oil in gas.. How can that happen? rings maybe?? anyone have ideas on that one.. thanks
10-20-2004, 11:05 PM
#2
Re: getting closer
It is odd that you couldn't get a test in display group 29 (which relates to a bank one oxygen sensor). For how long did you hold engine rpm at 1800 to 2200 before giving up? Did coolant and catalyst temperatures read above the minimums specified in the Bentley?
How did the earlier oxygen sensor tests in the Bentley go?
Do display group 26 fields 1 and 2 show fluctuating voltages at idle with a warm engine? Do fields 3 and 4 say B1-S1 ON and B2-S1 ON after three minutes? Were you able to run this test? If you couldn't access display group 26 as per the Bentley, you do have a weird ECU.
How about the tests in the Bentley for the oxygen sensors behind the catalysts, using display group 27 with coolant temp reading over 85 C, and oxygen sensor heating, using display group 28? All as specified, or are these display groups inaccessible in your car? That would be strange.
What are you expecting to find in display groups 31 and 32? What evidence is there that they have anything to do with oxygen sensors, apart from a mention of display group 32 in the section of the Bentley relevant to only the 5V engine introduced in model year 2000?
Each cylinder bank has its own pair of oxygen sensors, one ahead of the catalyst and one behind, a total of four. Why would one bad O2 sensor cause the same code on both banks? Seems unlikely, but I thought a broken wire to an ABS sensor was unlikely too.
Were you able to test the MAF sensor using VAG-COM? Did display group 7 fields 1 and 2 show between 3.9 and 6.5 g/s at idle in the specified circumstances? If not, the Bentley says first to look for vacuum leaks before doing other specified checks. Too lean at idle (additive fuel trim = idle) could indicate a vacuum leak, couldn't it? Even if the MAF test numbers are okay, it can't hurt to inspect your vacuum and PCV hoses, at least to confirm they're in good shape, since the latter commonly get brittle and crack.
If you had fuel in the engine oil as proposed by the Bentley (not oil in the gas), I'd think you'd get "too rich" codes from fuel sneaking by the rings. I don't see how fuel-laden oil could cause a "too lean" code, so would look elsewhere.
I'd also guess that evaporative emission system problems, for which the Bentley suggests you check, would result in "too rich" codes if the system delivers fuel vapors to the intake of an idling engine. Other evaporative emission faults beside a stuck open valve might involve broken hoses, and that brings us back to vacuum leaks. Or a MAF or oxygen sensor.
Good luck, and I'm curious what display groups 7, 26, 27 and 28 say when read under the conditions specified in the Bentley, since it would be nice to have confirmation of an oxygen sensor problem before paying for a new one.
Tom
How did the earlier oxygen sensor tests in the Bentley go?
Do display group 26 fields 1 and 2 show fluctuating voltages at idle with a warm engine? Do fields 3 and 4 say B1-S1 ON and B2-S1 ON after three minutes? Were you able to run this test? If you couldn't access display group 26 as per the Bentley, you do have a weird ECU.
How about the tests in the Bentley for the oxygen sensors behind the catalysts, using display group 27 with coolant temp reading over 85 C, and oxygen sensor heating, using display group 28? All as specified, or are these display groups inaccessible in your car? That would be strange.
What are you expecting to find in display groups 31 and 32? What evidence is there that they have anything to do with oxygen sensors, apart from a mention of display group 32 in the section of the Bentley relevant to only the 5V engine introduced in model year 2000?
Each cylinder bank has its own pair of oxygen sensors, one ahead of the catalyst and one behind, a total of four. Why would one bad O2 sensor cause the same code on both banks? Seems unlikely, but I thought a broken wire to an ABS sensor was unlikely too.
Were you able to test the MAF sensor using VAG-COM? Did display group 7 fields 1 and 2 show between 3.9 and 6.5 g/s at idle in the specified circumstances? If not, the Bentley says first to look for vacuum leaks before doing other specified checks. Too lean at idle (additive fuel trim = idle) could indicate a vacuum leak, couldn't it? Even if the MAF test numbers are okay, it can't hurt to inspect your vacuum and PCV hoses, at least to confirm they're in good shape, since the latter commonly get brittle and crack.
If you had fuel in the engine oil as proposed by the Bentley (not oil in the gas), I'd think you'd get "too rich" codes from fuel sneaking by the rings. I don't see how fuel-laden oil could cause a "too lean" code, so would look elsewhere.
I'd also guess that evaporative emission system problems, for which the Bentley suggests you check, would result in "too rich" codes if the system delivers fuel vapors to the intake of an idling engine. Other evaporative emission faults beside a stuck open valve might involve broken hoses, and that brings us back to vacuum leaks. Or a MAF or oxygen sensor.
Good luck, and I'm curious what display groups 7, 26, 27 and 28 say when read under the conditions specified in the Bentley, since it would be nice to have confirmation of an oxygen sensor problem before paying for a new one.
Tom
10-21-2004, 02:17 AM
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Re: getting closer
the maf on 7 read within spec. 27 reads .720v on both and b1-s2 and b2-s2 ok, 26 b1-s1 on b2s1 on
28 read 5.9 omhs and 4.8 ohms and htgs 1 on and htgs 2 on. I drove the car several miles to get up to temp and got the reads and also let sit idle till got up too temp..
remind you that the error on bank 2 comes up as intermitted..
Afer more test I think you might be right about the ecu. When I think back I did get funny errors a month ago but cleared it and have not seen it since. I can't remember the exact code but it did say like engine coded wrong. But I did clear the error. Have not seen it since. Also I tested the maf and o2 sensors with volt metere and for resistance and all checked out within spec. if it is the ecu what are my options? can I get it fixed? buy and new one? or get it reporgramed for more performance? thanks you have been a big help.
yes electronics can be fun. and the abs sensor is still workig like a champ. No errors.
28 read 5.9 omhs and 4.8 ohms and htgs 1 on and htgs 2 on. I drove the car several miles to get up to temp and got the reads and also let sit idle till got up too temp..
remind you that the error on bank 2 comes up as intermitted..
Afer more test I think you might be right about the ecu. When I think back I did get funny errors a month ago but cleared it and have not seen it since. I can't remember the exact code but it did say like engine coded wrong. But I did clear the error. Have not seen it since. Also I tested the maf and o2 sensors with volt metere and for resistance and all checked out within spec. if it is the ecu what are my options? can I get it fixed? buy and new one? or get it reporgramed for more performance? thanks you have been a big help.
yes electronics can be fun. and the abs sensor is still workig like a champ. No errors.
10-21-2004, 03:59 PM
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Re: getting closer
guess what works tonight?? I got a reading at meas block 31. cat 1 ok
and meas block 29 b1-s1 ok
reason I think is... When I went under the car to swap out the sensors I found that the one for b1-s1 (h o2 sensor behind the cat on the pass side) I found the wire laying against the exhaust pipe. because of this the 02 sensor would only work when till it overheated the wires and then the sensor causing too much resistance. so I put the wire back in the holding clip and took a drive. Now I get the readings I could not get last night. everything at this point checks out ok. I am sure I will get the 17544 p1136 code. that one still has me guessing but at least that one does not trip the check eng light. I guess I will know for sure in 60 miles. that seems to be about the time it takes to trip the check eng light. thanks I will keep you all posted.
and meas block 29 b1-s1 ok
reason I think is... When I went under the car to swap out the sensors I found that the one for b1-s1 (h o2 sensor behind the cat on the pass side) I found the wire laying against the exhaust pipe. because of this the 02 sensor would only work when till it overheated the wires and then the sensor causing too much resistance. so I put the wire back in the holding clip and took a drive. Now I get the readings I could not get last night. everything at this point checks out ok. I am sure I will get the 17544 p1136 code. that one still has me guessing but at least that one does not trip the check eng light. I guess I will know for sure in 60 miles. that seems to be about the time it takes to trip the check eng light. thanks I will keep you all posted.
10-21-2004, 04:32 PM
#6
60 miles
When I had my 97' VW golf GTI VR6 a VW technician told me, if your car has a small fault like a loose gas cap, after 3 miles of driving the computer will put it into a temporary fault file. If you have the same fault when next time you driving more than 3 miles, it will trigger the check engine light. If you fix the problem without scan tool it will reset itself after 40 cycles. I don't know if this applies to Audi too.
10-21-2004, 05:17 PM
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Re: getting closer
one small error I stated this O2 sensor fix (wire against the exhaust) should fix error code 11754 p1136 the bank one issue. that was not the one tripping the check eng light. the other code was the 17546 p1138. that one bently is calling out the maf sensor. still a expensive item. kind of strange cause that one is intermittent. wonder if something is sticking?? but all the readings on the vag come up normal according to what bently stats. This one is going to drive me buts and I may never catch it. might be eaiser to buy a new maf and go from there. anyone have any cheap places to get one? also very intersting about that cycling thing on the vw. wonder if that could also be my issue? thanks..
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10-21-2004, 05:36 PM
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Re: Something like that, the behavior is described in the Bentley
what should I search for?? also what is strange all the measuring blocks I looks at checked ok. Not one with a error..
10-21-2004, 06:00 PM
#10
Re: getting closer
I wouldn't read too much into which code trips the light, because like tozoA8 mentioned, it can have to do with which one occurred first and whether it was still there on the second driving cycle. So if the light and a second code came up during the second driving cycle, that doesn't mean the second code tripped the light.
Both banks' additive fuel trim too lean, one of them intermittent, that's what you're getting, right? 17544 and 17546? (11754 too?) You will catch it, most cars don't drive around with these codes.
If it were my car, I wouldn't buy parts without making sure there are no cracked/loose PCV or vacuum hoses. I might try using VAG-COM to log or graph the MAF, oxygen sensor voltages, and fuel trim values (sorry I don't have the Bentley here and don't remember if/where those can be read, apart from 26 for 02 sensor voltages) while the car idled or was driven, if VAG-COM's running on a portable computer, then see if there were variations that don't make sense (like sometimes the MAF sensor reads half the idle airflow than others despite the engine load % not going up).
Don't know how relevant it is, but a few people on the S4 forum with these codes report it was the MAF sensor. But again, checking for vacuum leaks, which aren't uncommon, especially via cracked PCV hoses at the back of the engine, is cheaper than experimentally buying a MAF sensor.
Tom
Both banks' additive fuel trim too lean, one of them intermittent, that's what you're getting, right? 17544 and 17546? (11754 too?) You will catch it, most cars don't drive around with these codes.
If it were my car, I wouldn't buy parts without making sure there are no cracked/loose PCV or vacuum hoses. I might try using VAG-COM to log or graph the MAF, oxygen sensor voltages, and fuel trim values (sorry I don't have the Bentley here and don't remember if/where those can be read, apart from 26 for 02 sensor voltages) while the car idled or was driven, if VAG-COM's running on a portable computer, then see if there were variations that don't make sense (like sometimes the MAF sensor reads half the idle airflow than others despite the engine load % not going up).
Don't know how relevant it is, but a few people on the S4 forum with these codes report it was the MAF sensor. But again, checking for vacuum leaks, which aren't uncommon, especially via cracked PCV hoses at the back of the engine, is cheaper than experimentally buying a MAF sensor.
Tom