IndyA8

I always think its interesting when people talk about German Engineering and refer to the Japanese products in terms of Reliability. I've worked in the automotive manufacturing world and remember reading about the big turnaround at Porsche. The CEO openly discussed their visits to Japan to learn how to do a better job making their products.

I tend to think that German cars aren't as well engineered as they used to be. Look at new Benz. Before, it was engineered to a standard, now, engineered to a price. The old S class, wow, what a car. Nothing was even close, big BMWs, Audi, nothing. The car was a vault and would run, literally forever. I think know too much effort is put into producing electronic marvels, without much thought about how to make something that is simple, elegent, and engineered to be work each and every time.

Example, MMI, BMWs iDrive. Somewhere down the road, maybe these products will turn into gotta haves, but do they really enhance the driving experience?

What ever happened to Form follows Function? Elegence in Simplicity? Isn't the better engineered product the one that is simpler to use? I just don't see that at the top end.

JimR

It seems to me that with IDrive and MMI, the Germans are trying to out-gadget the Japanese. A losing proposition to me; no one is going to out-gadget the Japanese over the long haul.

The reason I buy German cars is that I like the way cars feel, that have been designed to go 150MPH on the Autobahn. Even at half that speed, the cars just feel different than cars that have not come from that crucible.

IDrive and MMI do not enhance the above.

If Lexus starts putting out an AWD GS400, and testing them on the Nurburgring, watch out.

Far-fetched? There are Torsen center diffs in the LX470, and Cadillac did suspension development and testing on the CTS on German roads.

USCTrojan4Life

Lexus are so reliable, that if one were to ever fail, I'm sure they can afford to show this kind of service. If Audi did this, they would go broke.

greenie

Mercedes problem may be Chrysler. Their bottom lines may be different as well as their goals. This marriage IMHO has only served to cheapen the Benz and cut the legs out from under them. Cars change from year to year to keep up with the demand for change(supposedly)and the need for manufacturers to stay "fresh". You take a basically good car and what can you change? Convenience items, such as idrive or MMI. When something goes wrong its usually tied to the gimmicks added for this convenience. Cars are not basic anymore and , unfortunately, it will get worse. But alas, the upside for some of us is that we are creatures of gizmos so when we see something like MMI we tend to "wet our bibs"! It will always we a trade off and a question of what we are willing to trade.


greenie 625


04 A8L silver/sabre

AndyZ

In the late 80's and arly 90's I had a 5000t and then a model 90 no more Audis (went in other car directions for a while) until my '98 A8

Here's what they did back then:
POST warrantee free tranny and intake valve cleaning (head came off)

New tranny @ 66k mi on the model 90, and they KNEW that I towed a boat with it!!!

Too bad it appears that AoA has gone to %^&T

AndyZ

Absolutely correct comment-- th eold S-class is a freaking TANK

We're on our second one the 375k mi one was totaled in an accident. Only reason it's off the road!

IndyA8

There is also the Japanese market Skyline, which has all the performance goodies.

Can Lexus be far behind? Hasn't Honda pretty much dominated every form of racing it has entered? Didn't Infiniti a few years back, before they ran into financial trouble, own LeMans type racing for a few years?

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy Euro cars. I've owned a 90, a 91 200Q (20V), 94 V8Q, a 97 Saab 9000 Aero, and now my A8. All of them, except the Saab, had problems I wouldn't of expected from a premium make. If the Japanese focus on the performance side of the equation, as they clearly have shown they have the engineering capabilities, then I guess we'd have alot more options.

IndyA8

I was absolutely unlucky! But then, from what I've read here, seems like there were alot of unlucky people. Lots of tranny issues.

Tell me this, are you going to follow Audi's recommendation of a lifetime fill on your tranny, or will you follow the sage advice of PaulW and others here and change transmission fluid every 35K miles or so?

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy driving my Audi. I just drove to Pittsburgh and back and really enjoyed the ride. What I don't understand is why things like trannies break, and rotors warp, and headrest quit working, and rear window shades go up but won't go down, CV boots continually split, and electronic pieces just quit working, all before 50K miles? And then I wonder why people bad mouth a fine vehicle like Lexus or Infiniti, which are absolutely well engineered cars, by saying they're boring or lack passion?

Do you think our generation still suffers from the stigma of "Made in Japan" labels?

D3AeighT

and knew of the many service problems with Infiniti. She said they were replacing transmissions in Infiniti's like they were going out of style. Not sure of the model, etc. or what this means in the grand scheme of things between german and japanese makes. Is it still true the japanese can "copy" things better than anyone and thus their engineering doesn't have to waste money developing.

Austin A6 3.2

My A8 has about 42k miles on the clock and I haven't had any problems so far. Well, that's not exactly true, the cruise control has some intermittent issues, but they don't bother me and it works fine.
I won't change the tranny fluid, but only because I will only keep the car for about two years.

With regards to the "Made in Japan" thing, I'am 34 and I certainly don't have any problems with "Made in Japan" stuff. I have a Sony PDA and Pioneer DVD player and probably a lot of other stuff from Japan.

I agree that Japanese cars are well engineered and very reliable. What I dislike is the complete exchangability and uniformity of their designs (if you put a Honda badge on a Camry, noone will notice), and the fact that they copy and don't innovate. They do an excellent job at that, but it doesn't rock my boat.

Just looking at the LS430, I see a 1980's designed S-class that has been slightly modified to look more modern. The interior design is up to par with a Lincoln/Cadillac, but not with an Audi.

I find them boring, many others don't, else Lexus wouldn't be the best selling luxury brand in the US.

2000 A8L