roughyear

what other car would have the same feel/touch/class as an A8 (under $20k)...

i'd love to get an '04 or newer A8 (love the body style) but they're above my affordablitiy.

any recommendations???

tozoM8

I would get a 97' A8 in gunmetal grey;-)

bA8

01' S8

S8bell

<center><img src="http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/77543/miller_time-2.jpg"></center><p>Not quite an A8 in feel; but, not as far off as you may think. You can also get fully modded ones that have been well cared for that will blow the doors off most anything around for that price. This one is my 95.5 though there are '97 MY cars available occasionally. The only non factory parts on this car are the Forge BPV and the Front mounted intercooler. It is about the same weight as a new A3 with ~360+ HP due to the goodies from an RS2 and appropriate software.

ttuling

better steering (despite the nastiness of MacPherson struts, go figure!), much better seats, adequate headroom, lower polar moment etc. And the side impact performance has actually been tested. Based on driving the Five Hundred, it should be a nice car, better than the A8 if you value steering and comfort more than 0 to 60.

Too bad they've lost the Five Hundred's clever CVT and put a ridiculous grill on next year's car. But as we know with Audi, challenging grills are in fashion.

Tom

ryoung

The Porsche 911 uses MacPherson struts with great success. Besides being a very compact design, the main advantage is light weight, great for handling and ride. The only real disadvantage is excessive chamber change if suspension travel or body roll aren't well controlled.

<img src="http://www.webwombat.com.au/motoring/images/porsche-911-gt3-big-2.jpg"><ul><li><a href="http://javascript:clickKnowledgebase('/kbase.aspx?pool=usa&amp;type=kbase&amp;id=997gt3in detailchassisaxleconcept&amp;lang=none')">Porsche 911 GT3 front suspension</a></li></ul>

ttuling

The hub level offset lets the engine turn the steering wheel if one front wheel transmits more torque than the other.

Also if there is a negative offset at road level to go with diagonally split brakes, the nose of the car lowers as you turn the wheel toward full lock. Maybe things are better now but mid 80s Golf and W124 Mercedes steering wheels had the ridiculous tendency to flop the rest of the way full lock by themselves during sharp low speed turns. As ever, who's steering the car -- the driver or the nose jack linked to the steering? And what am I feeling -- caster and pneumatic trail exclusively, or the nose lifting along with some gyroscopic bump steer and occasional torque steer?

Well, despite those possible horrors, I thought the Ford Five Hundred steering was okay. It certainly wasn't as mucked up with damping as that of our lovely Deutschebuicks.

As usual, I still want -- and am not going to get in anything with airbags -- steering action that is 100% decoupled from suspension movement, with active anti-roll so that constant camber over bumps doesn't hurt grip even if a lot of suspension travel is available. As it relates to steering precision if not grip, nearly all of the "ride/handling compromise" is avoidable by decoupling suspension movement from any sort of steering effect, be it caused by camber change (with extra gyroscopic badness at speed), toe change, or whatever else I'm forgetting. So that's why I don't like MacPherson struts. They lead people to think that only hard-riding cars can steer with precision.

Tom

caveman98

I cant believe u would recommend a ford taurus..hah

Always Overcharged

As my kids geyt olderthe large car is possibly becoming redundant but will be sorely missed when the day comes

dimitristx

double-wishbone suspensions. Both cars are compact and nimble. Why does Porsche insist on McPhearsons?