bumboola

Sorry to bother you with this, but I consider you the "Wheel and Tire Guru" of the board, so here it goes: A young cousin of mine about 6 months ago purchased a 2001 A6 4.2 with the pie-plate wheels mounting 255/40 tires with fairly new Toyos sporting an extremely aggressive tread pattern. I warned him about the suitabilty of these tires in the winter here, but he did not change them. Needless to say, the car was parked every time it snowed. Now, the tires are falling apart: the inside sidewall of each front tire is separating from the tread. Any insight on this?

On to the main question: We have decided to change all 4 tires. He is looking for a better ride, bought the car for the looks and the power but thinks the car rides too stiffly. I suggested an all-season tire with possibly a taller sidewall. The wheels are 17x8. Would a 245/45 tire have the same width as a 255/40? Do you think he would have any clearance problems with the increased diameter? Any other input such as tire pressure or tire choice? I would have posted this on the A6 board but probably would have gotten just a bunch of snotty answers.

Thanks in advance,

Paul

ryoung

Regarding the Toyo's --

High performance summer tire or not, parked when it snowed or not, there's definitely no good reason why you should be seeing tread seperation. Since it occurred on all four tires, it sounds to me like a manufacturing problem with a run of a batch of tires in that size. It's a little strange that the seperation is only on the inside, and on all four tires. Where the tires rotated front to back at some point? Perhaps there's something unique about either the front or rear suspension of the A6 that would cause this to occur on the inside; but IMHO it's not an Audi problem, but a tire quality problem.

BTW: Exactly which Toyo tire is this? I've been thinking about trying the Toyo T1-S after I wear out the S-03's.


For a replacement tire --

The 245/45-17 would be a bit too tall for my tastes. From the table in <A HREF="https://forums.audiworld.com/a6/msgs/110254.phtml">A6/S6 Tire Options</a>, it's 0.7" taller and 0.4" narrower than than your current size. It'll also produce a 3% speedometer error.

I'd probably recommend staying with the original 255/40-17. Both the Conti ExtremeContact or the Michelin Pilot Sport A/S are very highly rated "ultra high performance" all-season tires. From the <A HREF="http://www.tirerack.com/tires/surveyresults/uhpas.jsp">TireRack Owner Survey</a>, they also rate very well in ride comfort.

Or backing off a notch in performance, there's the Bridgestone RE950 in 235/45-17, the <A HREF="http://www.tirerack.com/tires/surveyresults/hpas.jsp">Top Rated</a> "high performance" all-season tire. This tire is within 1% of the diameter of your current tire, but it's 0.8" narrower. It'll fit fine on the 17x8 wheel.

For tire pressure, I wouldn't deviate too far from Audi's recommendation behind the fuel filler door. At most, you could add 2-4 psi in the front only to improve handling a bit.

I hope all this helps, and thanks for the complement :-)

Conti ExtremeContact
<img src="http://www.tirerack.com/images/tires/conti/co_contiextremecont.jpg">

Michelin Pilot Sport A/S
<img src="http://www.tirerack.com/images/tires/michelin/mi_pilot_sport_as.jpg">

Bridgestone RE950
<img src="http://www.tirerack.com/images/tires/bridgestone/bs_potenza_re950.jpg">

bumboola

I didn't want to name them or berate them too badly at the risk of offending somebody. The separation is occuring on the front tires only where the load is probably twice as bad as on the rears. Do these tires have extremely stiff sidewalls that would cause a harsh ride and possibly the separation problem?

The Conti EC's were my first choice. I had no idea that you posted an A6 tire guide but should have known better! In regard to this tire, do you think there would be a discernible difference in ride quality between the 40 and 45 series rubber? Again, his main goal is to smooth out the ride.

Thanks again,

Paul

ryoung

For a max performance tire, the T1-S apparently has a relatively soft sidewall. April has had both the T1-S and the S-03 on one of her cars, and says the S-03 is much stiffer and rides firmer. In thinking about the problem a bit more, about the only thing that might have caused the tread seperation is running the tires severely underinflated.

The 255/40-17 and the 235/45-17 have nearly identical sidewall height's, and the ride should be essentially the same for the same model tire from the same manufacturer. Switching manufacturer's or models, though, is another story; priorities and the details of the tire construction can effect the ride even with the same size tire (as with the identical size T1-S and S-03). In general, though, I'd assume that ride is a more important design criteria for a "high performance" tire than an "ultra high performance" tire, and that the Bridestone RE950 is likely to have the best ride of the three.

KjellA

Any reason you are willing to try Toyo instead of Bridgestone?

I am going to get a set of S-03's now, but would like to hear your opinions first. Only reason I am changing is that price difference to Falken FK-451 is close to nothing. Otherwise I would stick to the Falken's, they have proved to be really great. 20.000 miles is not bad either.

ryoung

both off and on track, though I've never tried the Falken FK-451.

My only problem with the tire, and the reason I'm thinking about trying the T1-S, may not be a problem in your climate. On the track in sunny 32+ oC weather, the tread temperature of the S-03's have hit 115 oC, at which point they're getting a bit greasy. Other than that, I still agree with everything I wrote in my original S-03 post almost two years ago.<ul><li><a href="https://forums.audiworld.com/a8/msgs/5405.phtml">S-03 versus Dunlop SP8000</a></li></ul>

KjellA

I have had some track days with temperatures around and above 30°C, and it would have trashed the Falkens if I took too many laps.

I will give the S-03's a shot then, looking forward to it. The Falkens have started tramlining a bit now at the end of their useful life. Not a lot, and expected.

BTW. Our climate is suprisingly good taking into consideration that our southern part is as far north as the middle of Hudson Bay. And then it stretches as far north as the north tip of Alaska. Had 20°C today for instance, pretty good for April. Summer can be quite hot, winter can be very cold. At least we have 4 distinct seasons, and they might hit you all in the same day, no matter what the calendar says. :-)

pikejerky

they melt. A few reviews claimed that they were only marginally suitable for track use. I suspect those reviewers are wrong though because the T1-S has been the tire used by the Speed Touring Car and GT series for the past two years. This year they have moved on to the Toyo RA-1 tire.

The reviewers must have just been overdriving their tires or running a bad setup.

Summary of reviews I've read so far: Great tire. Very light. Outstanding wet traction! Great dry traction. Relatively low noise. Turn in is not as good as other tires (soft sidewall).

Also, I've just noticed that the third gen of Goodyear's F1 is now available. Might also be a good tire.

Note: zero first hand experience with the T1-S. ymmv.

ryoung

I'm going to rely on the fact that these tires where used for two different classes of Speedvision cars as an indication that the hold up at least reasonably well on the track.