Mr. Z

As you all may know, I decided to spend a couple hundred bucks at the Audi dealer to have them properly diagnose and provide estimates for three issues with my A8.

I've been using a local indy shop because getting to the dealer is a major hassle, the indy shop said they were experienced with Audi (or at least German cars -- lots of M-B certificates on walls) and because they were friendly and inexpensive (and were willing to let me provide parts, if I so wished). Some of the downsides: Almost none of the repairs were perfect after the first visit and some things were just wrong. Also, it seemed like every time the car went in for one thing, it developed some new problem within a week. Lastly, I got the feeling that they were doing more guessing and playing the "throw this idea against the wall and see if it sticks" game with my wallet.

PROBLEM 1: oil collecting in the belly pan, oil drops on garage floor, burning oil smell (when I bought car, buyer's inspection mentioned a bit of oil at cam seal)

INDY SHOP: "It's your heads. Need to rebuild for $2,500."

AUDI DEALER: Valve cover gaskets & cam seals. Maybe upper oil pan. $1,365 quote.

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PROBLEM 1a: More of a burning rubber (or at least non-oil) smell. Maybe like brakes overheating?

INDY SHOP: Didn't discuss with them. Started after they did coolant pipe. Prompted the dealer visit.

AUDI DEALER: Believe related to oil burning. Will see if it remains after cam seals & valve cover gaskets. No other causes apparent.

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PROBLEM 2: Vibration in front -- especially when braking. Rough ride. Feel every bump on road.

INDY SHOP: Did front disks/pads a while back and it helped for a bit. Also metioned a bad shock. In recent follow-up, they said that the upper control arm bushings were shot.

AUDI DEALER: Checked brakes, suspension, steering &amp; tires. Suggest starting with rebalancing the old tires ("cheapest solution first"). Note: tires <i>are</i> worn

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PROBLEM 3: Water leak in front passenger footwell.

INDY SHOP: Supposedly blew drains clean. No idea what problem is. They wanted to search for leaks in windshield. Possibly send out to leak specialists.

AUDI DEALER: ECM cover seal not great (applied temporary adhesive fix). Plenum drains plugged. Air box intake seal faulty, allowing water in through heater box intake. Fix requires removal of dash &amp; reseal. $1,570 quote. (Note: When I asked if there might be a non-factory "fix" like drilling new drain holes, they said it was worth researching online with DIY owners.)

bac2h

an extent. If your tires are worn and need replacing in the not too distant future I would not throw money at rebalancing the old tires. That does not make sense to me as you are going to have to pay for the balancing when you get new tires again. Not having a D2 (but looking) I am really not qualified to comment on the other issues but the dealer sounds like they are thinking clearly and interested in solving your problems. Which is a lot more than some people experience with dealers.

PaulW

If you sold your car, bought one without these problems, it would cost the same or be cheaper.
I would suggest researching these items here, replacing the cam seals (a few dollars in parts), just follow the timing belt replacement on audipages.com and look at the picture of the blue seal on the parts needed page.

Mr. Z

Yes, I considered it -- or even considered buying a later year. BUT, the big thing that comes to mind is that most of these issues were not there at time of purchase -- or at least not to this extent. I could end up with the exact same problems (or worse) a year down the road. In the case of this car, I've already had TB job done (known at time of purchase) and the tranny had been rebuilt not long before I bought it. Appearance/condition-wise the car is beautiful (the nicest of all I saw)... and Ming Blue with ecru leather. There also just aren't (or weren't) that many to choose from in Pac NW. I had to drive down to Portland, OR to see 1/2 of the ones available and some of those were terrible.

If $3K (dealer price, or less at a GOOD, Audi-knowledgeable indy mechanic) would fix all of the serious outstanding issues, I'm still OK with it.

It is the whole "sunk cost" &amp; known/unknown issue.

rompbogger123

Paul i want to say first off that i very much respect your opinion and appreciate your help with these vehicles and youre website. However it has been suggested many times before how these cars can be purchased for pennies on the dollar. im not sure what the market is like where everyone else lives but i live in minneapolis MN and a typical late 90s a8 with 100,000 miles is still $8000 on the low end. i guess i just cant fathom these cars can be bought with no oil leaks for $2000-4000. i think we need to be more realistic so when it comes time to sell our cars we dont have to give them away. yes i understand how much maintenance these cars are but cmon they are stil a $55,000 dollar vehicle. maybe im just misunderstood or live in the wrong area...

Mr. Z

These are similar results to what I found when I bought my car at the end of 2005. Back then, as there are now, there were one or two that seemed too good to be true -- and proved to be just that when seen in person. Others that seemed otherwise reasonable would have issues that the owner or dealer didn't consider to be real enough problems to list in an ad or sometimes even disclose -- things like certain features (seats, rear shade, cruise) being dead. Even rough ride or alignment issues were blown off as being subjective. Thank goodness for Audipages!

PaulW

If there was all these problems with your car, sell it for what you can get....add another $3K to your proceeds and buy one that is newer in nice condition. Facelift model preferred.

Mr. Z

The Pacific Northwest just isn't loaded with used A8's (or their owners are keeping them). The difference between a '97 and a 2000 is somewhere around $5,000 if you're talking apples-to-apples on condition.

For another $3,000 to the dealer (or less if I can figure a reliable way to get it done), all of my big issues have now been dealt with. Anything spent before is a sunk cost.

TerminA8r

<center><img src="http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/13362/p1010002_1.jpg"></center><p>We could meet up some time and I can help you diagnose the problems/solutions on your A8. I have a lift in the garage, wich is helpful and a Vag-com. I have been a D2 owners since 2001 and between the 3 D2's we have, I still don't think I have spent $3000 in parts on problems/issuses with the cars. I have spent a $$$$ in upgrades/improvements though.<ul><li><a href="https://forums.audiworld.com/a8/msgs/111799.phtml">List of issues expected by 90K</a></li></ul>

Mr. Z

Cool... you have mail...