KeithM

I purchased a new set of Dunlop SP Sport A2's (225-60-16) 13 months ago for my 97 A8Q. I had an alignment done at the time of purchase. I routinely moniter my tire pressure, especially in the winter time.

I rotated the tires after 4700 miles on them (with no problems)and recently after 9800 miles in December. My ride quality immediately changed for the worse after this rotation. I also experienced some pulling.

I returned to the tire retailer last week for an analysis. They diagnosed that all four tires were cupping. When asked why, they replied that because I was not driving the car everyday, they were cupping while in my garage from non use. This was not a satisfactory response for me so I scheduled an appointment with the dealer for an alignment and analysis.

The dealer stated that the Sport A2's have been experiencing some load problems lately. They stated that the A8 is too heavy a car for those tires, and that those tires are not designed to be cross-rotated.

They stated that the tire is warrantied by Goodyear and that with 8/32 tread left I should get maybe 90-100% trade value with a Gemini Goodyear retaler. They recommended the Goodyear GT-HR as a replacement.

Since this is a new line of tires, I could not find much information on them at tirerack.com. If I trade these in, I will have to buy some form of Goodyear product.

Any suggestions or insight into this problem? Thanks in advance for your responses.

PaulW

If it wasn't the dealer, that the first step, get a proper alignment done at the dealer. Make sure you always get an as-found and as-left print out.

I'm sure Randy can help you out with the rest.

ryoung

The A8 is definitely <b>not too heavy</b> for this tire. Aside from the fact that 225/60-16 is the OE tire size for a 16" wheel, this <A HREF="http://tires2.digiknow.com/dunlop/display_tire.jsp?prodline=Sport+A2&mrktarea=Perfor mance">Dunlop A2</a> has a 97 <A HREF="http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/general/speed.htm">Load Rating</a> or 730 kg/tire, which is more than adequate. The OE Dunlop SP8000 on my S8 has a 96 Load Rating, 710 kg/tire, and didn't have any problems. My 255/35-20 S-03's have a 93 Load Rating or 640 kg/tire. In general, the load rating of a tire is proportional to the amount of air in it. As you can see from the audipages <A HREF="http://www.audipages.com/upgrades/tiresizeoptions.html">A8/S8 Tire Options</a>, the 225/60-16 has 7% more internal volume than the 245/45-18.

Even if the A2 has nylon caps, "not driving the car everyday, they were cupping while in my garage from non use" is <b>nonsense</b>. Nylon caps can take a temporary set if the sit for a few days, but they're fine after a few miles of driving. The tire's construction is stamped on the side of tire. If you see something like "sidewall 2 ply rayon, tread 2 ply rayon, 2 ply steel, 2 ply nylon", the nylon is the cap pll.

If you're stuck with either Goodyear or Dunlop (the former owns the latter), my only suggestion would be the Goodyear RS-A, though this almost double the price of the Dunlop A2 and rates rather low in TireRack's <A HREF="http://www.tirerack.com/tires/surveyresults/hpas.jsp">Owner Survey</a>. I guess, though, that the survey has to be taken with a few grains of salt ... the Dunlop A2 rates very well.

My conclusion: The tire design itself is defective and may not be able to handle cross rotation. If the dealer didn't warn you about this, I'd demand credit for the unused portion of the tires in cash and buy either the Bridgestone RE950's or the Michelin Pilot A/S. In general, I'm not particularly fond of GY tires. If necessary, I would just write off the money spent and buy the Michilin A/S's.

KaMaKaZieP -ALUMIN8-

They handled well and are inexpensive. I opted for the oddball 16" tire size. The 255/55/16 Street Sport Truck tire Kumho STX. It just fits and I have no rubbing issues. These tires had better be able to hold the A8 if they can hold a Chevy Blazer. Overall, for the 16-inch rim user this has been the choice of many Caddy STS and Caprice owners with 16-inch wheels. The only downfall is people have noticed a road noise. I have not really noticed, I guess since the A8 has good sound dampening. I would trade noise for insane handling any day. The tires can hold up to 51psi but I run 36F and 38R this is a nice sporty feel with stock suspension. I dont know if you want to go this route but its a good alternative.

greenie

stated that your A8 is too heavy a car FOR THOSE TIRES? What am I missing? Was your car de-badged??????????????? Almost LOL

KeithM

Thanks for your response. Sorry for just getting back, I have been in meetings all day. But to clarify, I purchased the tires from a third party retailer. The Audi dealer is the one who told me that the car is too heavy for the tires. He suggested that I go to a Goodyear dealer for trade-in.

TSHong

Tires cannot get cupping wear from sitting still. They have to be rolling for them to become cupped. Usually this happens when your toe is either too in or out. Camber cannot cause this type of wear, and caster only cause a pulling situation.

The Audi dealer is mis-informed about the the SPA2 not being able to handle the weight of the A8. A passenger tires ability to handle a specific weight is mostly determined is the volume of air it holds. This means the size of the tire determins the load capablity. Since the P22560R16 is an OE size so overloading is not a problem. Even if overloading was the problem, you would just get smooth accelerated wear, not cupping.

Now for the ride disturbance problem. Ryoung is correct that nylon overlays can sometimes temporarlily flatspot if sitting around for a couple of days. This would go away as soon as the car is driven for a couple of miles and the tires warm up. Were the tires balanced while they were being rotated? Does the vibration come up at hwy speeds? Have your tires rebalanced. Sometimes a wheel weight can slig off and cause a vibration.

Cupping condition is not a " tire " problem, itis just a symptom for a mechanical problem caused by a mis-alignment or loose suspension problem. Also the higher the traction a tire has, the more sensitive to mis-algnment. A high traction tire wants to track to where its pointed. If the tire doesn't have great traction, it is not very sensitive to mis-alignments. The Goodyear Eagle GT HR or Eagle RSA are very hight traction tires. If the SPA2 are cupping, any decent traction tire will eventually cup as well. Since cupping wear is a symptom, changing tires will not cure the underlying cause of the cupping.
Sounds like the Goodyear Gemini Dealer you are currently working with is pretty inexperienced. Call another one for better experienced staff.

Goodyear Gemini Dealer in ATL, email me if you have any specific warranty questions about Goodyear Gemini or Dunlop products.

ryoung

"I had an alignment done at the time of purchase. ... I rotated the tires after 4700 miles on them (with no problems) and recently after 9800 miles in December. My ride quality immediately changed for the worse after this rotation. I also experienced some pulling. ... They diagnosed that all four tires were cupping."

Since this occurred to all four nearly new tires immediately a rotation, I considered a common alignment problem front &amp; rear, left &amp; right extremely unlikely. Do you really consider the Dunlop A2 all-season a high traction tire?

TSHong

I actually talked to KeithM today and got though all of the clutter. Keith said that both the dealer and the tire store recognized the tires were cupping. Toe wear always effects both tires on the same axle. Total toe, front and rear, is the figure you look at when you set toe. Left and right toe only indicates the steering wheel position. Lets say if the left toe is at zero degrees, and the right is sitting at -0.3 degrees, when your going down the road, it averages and you are riding at -.15 for both front tires. Your steering wheel is crooked to the left, but both tires will show cupping wear because they are toed out.

Keith also said that the car rides smooth at hwy speeds and that the car does not pull when cruising down the road. It only pulls to the right when slowing down. The front tires were cross rotated, and it still pulled to the right, eliminating a tire pull. I think he is experiencing a brake problem since it only pulls when braking. Sounds like to me there is unequaled brake pressure, causing pulling when braking only.

I consider SPA2 as a touring tire. On a scale of 1 to 10, 10 being the highest,it would be about a 7 to 8. I know you deal with top of the line tires when we deal with 18, 19, and 20 inch application on an A8. I sell just as many passenger and light truck tires, so I consider SPA2 a higher traction tire. Just my perception beacuse I deal with all types of tires every day.

ryoung

Does Kieth still have the "after" results of the last alignment? The toe specs (at least for the S8) are

Front: 0^o05' to 0^o15'
Rear: 0^o01' to 0^o11'

Since Kieth had cupping on all four tires, he has excessive total toe out front and back?

BTW: With my last alignment, I had front toe set to zero and rear to spec. The "before" was in-spec in the front and zero in the rear. On track, I had actually been having problems with the rear getting loose. I'm hoping this helps a bit keeping the rear end tied down. In the front, I prefer zero toe for maximum braking, though some use toe out to improve turn-in.