ryoung

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My brother Don and I were driving the S8 in back-to back 30 minute sessions; but unfortunately, the S8 didn't survive the two day ACCNA event because of a brake master cylinder failure.

A brief report for now until I can post some pics with a more complete write-up:

I had installed new brake pads front and rear. As most of you know, you have to push the caliper pistons back into the caliper when you install "thick" new pads to replace the thinner worn out pads. When you do this, your force brake fluid back thru the master cylinder into the reservoir. Apparently there was a hard piece of some kind of trash in the system that scored a master cylinder O-ring. We bled the brakes after installing the new pads, but the pedal didn't feel quite as firm as usual; like there was a small amount of air in the system. Braking distances were much longer than normal and increased with each session. Bleeding the brakes again only made the problem worse. Near the end, threshold braking was impossible, and ABS was kicking in almost every time you got hard on the brakes.

Friday morning I took the car over to the Fred Baker garage at the track. Fred Baker is a local Audi dealer and one of the sponsors for this Mid-Ohio event; their mechanics provide any specialized track-side help that you may need -- under warrantee. They went over the brake system thoroughly, power bled the system, but again the brake peddle just got softer, and they concluded that the master cylinder was the problem. Fortunately it wasn't a total failure, and I was able to drive home; but repeated braking from 120 mph was out of the question.

BTW -- on Thursday and between the two of us, Don and I put about 200 miles on the S8 in what were essentially three 32 oC hot, one hour track sessions, certainly a severe test of the S8. Water temperature was running one hash mark below maximum on the gauge, probably just below tripping the idiot light and much hotter than I would have liked to see. Next time I need to remember to turn the heater on set the temperature to max for at least the passenger side. Sure, the master cylinder did fail, but this could just as easily have failed driving to the food store at 30 mph.

The S-03's held up surprisingly well. The front tire pressures increased from 39 lb/sq-in cold to 53 lb/sq-in hot; and after a slow cool down lap, the tread temperature was still 93 oC. On the track, tire temps were probably up to 115 oC. The tires were slightly greasy near the end of the sessions, but no tread chunking -- all things considered, not bad for street tires. I would have lowered tire pressures for Friday, but so much for planning.

Don was running laps 10 sec quicker than me, and sorry, I can't resist quoting one comment from the instructor in Don's car, "I guess those M5's aren't all they're cracked up to be." :-)

Last but not least:

Thanks to Craig Liechty and Audi Car Club NA for organizing a great event.

Thanks to Fred Baker Porsche/Audi for the sponsorship and doing their best to get me back on the track.

EricBell

you made it home without any problems. Good luck on getting the brakes functional again.

-Eric

ryoung

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was that I wasn't able to take advantage of your offer for some rear view in-car camera video from following your car. I'm sure you're right, I'd learn much about both the S8 and my driving.

'Til the next time,

escapA8

I was there with my stock 97 FWD A8. I am in the middle of preparing to move to Chicago. I hope I can share some things with you guys on the forum later!

ryoung

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I'm trying to get Don to write a corner-by-corner Mid-Ohio track report with an S8, but he's building a house and somewhat busy. Still, I'm hoping to have the write-up buy the time I get the track photos.

Don had a total of 2 miles in an S8, or any Audi, before Mid-Ohio (he drove it from breakfast to the track Thursday morning), but at the track he drove the car far beyond anything I've done to date. He'll definitely have some interesting anecdotes, like

1. Going thru the exit of Turn 1 sideways at 90 mph

2. Getting into Turn 3 too hot, and then driving 30 yards thru the turn at full throttle with opposite lock

3. Approaching Turn 7 at 120 mph and having the brake pedal go to the floor because of the master cylinder problem

... and managing to stay on the track in each case.

Don was in 4th gear approaching Turns 3, 7, and 13; I've only managed to get into 4th down the back straight approaching Turn 7. And he was being conservative because it was my car ??!!

Anyway, his write-up should help me quite a bit for my next visit to Mid-Ohio. Don's confident that with brakes, the S8 could do 1 min 46-47 sec laps on the S-03's. To put that in perspecive, the NSX in the Mid-Ohio school video was turning consistent 1 min 50 sec laps, and Don's done 1 min 29 sec in his '94 van Dieman Formula Continental.

PaulW

Is he a road racer or something? Or just crazy? My impression is that you know how to drive, is that correct? And you like to go fast? Or are you just more sane.

I did speak to my friend Scott Justison at the auto cross in WI a couple months back, he remembered you from an event last year, the only S8 out there. Who's older, you or your brother?

Did you change the brake pads yourself before the event? I imagine you did, that's awesome to see a S8 owner do that with their car under warranty. If so, I find it hard to believe that Audi would pay for a new master cylinder under warranty. However, for your sake, I hope they do. Don't they ask who has been working on the car? Oh, that's right, the dealer isn't ususally that smart. :-) (sorry for the smart *** remark, couldn't help myself)

pw

ryoung

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The short answer -- He's a better driver.

The long version -- He can drive the car closer to 100%, and if he drives thru a corner at 101%, he has the ability to recover safely. He also has the common sense not to try driving at 100% thru Turn 11, for example.

Don does have much more experience at Mid-Ohio than I do. He's been SCCA Club racing at Mid-Ohio (and about 10 other tracks) since 1995. The photo below is his normal car; it was taken at last year's Mid-Ohio Valvoline RunOffs, the winner-take-all SCCA championship race for N. America. Like all higher level Formula cars, the chassis evolves and improves every year, and most of the cars at the RunOffs were '00 or '01 vintage. He was the only driver that qualified for the race in a pre-'97 van Dieman; his is a '94. Of course his crew chief (me!) does give him a good set-up. We do share common genes, but his track/racing experience makes his instincts much more finely tuned than mine. [Also, we do have a distant ancestor named Schumacher from the same small town in Germany as another driver named Michael ... honest.] The bottom line -- Even though a 980 lb mid-engine Formula car is probably as far from a 2 ton AWD Audi sedan as you can get, Don knows how to drive, knows the track, and quickly adapted.

<img src="http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/17157/bumpsteer.jpg">

I'm 8 years older than Don; and many many years ago, I autocrossed a Fiat 850 and a Saab Sonnet, but last year at Mid-Ohio was my first time on the track since then. At least on the track I do like to drive fast, and I expect others who have driven track sessions with me would agree. Also, I believe Don and I have about equal levels of sanity, though it's possible I might feel a little different after a lap around Mid-Ohio as a passenger with Don driving the S8.

Regarding the brake work ...

Yes, I changed the pads myself, though Fred Baker Porsche/Audi, the dealer who was at the track, did offer to change them if I needed help. After still having a soft pedal after repeated brake bleeding the "old fashioned" way, I did go to them for help. They bled the system again by pressurizing the brake fluid reservoir, but still no luck. The dealer's mechanics agreed that it was a master cylinder and have already ordered a replacement; and I'll be taking it to them for the work. I don't expect any problems, but I'm not taking the car to my own dealer to avoid any potential hassles.