Oneplank

I have had an 1998.5 A4 (AHA) since April 1998 (still own it). Whenever I have had a problem, I have been able search the Forum and find a solution. I cannot find a solution to my new ride.

I recently purchased a 2007 A8 (engine code BVJ). It is an awesome car, it drives like a dream. I just have one problem. Several days after I drove the vehicle home (400 miles), the MIL or check engine light illuminated yellow.
The following codes were retrieved by VAG-COM.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine Labels: None
Part No SW: 4E1 910 560 A HW: 4E1 907 560
Component: 4.2l V8/4V 0040
Revision: 71H21--- Serial number: AUX3Z0G2720426
Coding: 01060009190F0120
Shop #: WSC 02313 785 00200
VCID: 20451A5A8A45

4 Faults Found:
008196 - Intake Manifold Flap; Bank 1: Stuck Open
P2004 - 004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00100100
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 1
Mileage: 105815 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2010.12.06
Time: 11:51:21

Freeze Frame:
RPM: 728 /min
Load: 29.8 %
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Temperature: 33.0°C
Temperature: 13.0°C
Absolute Pres.: 990.0 mbar
Voltage: 13.970 V

008197 - Intake Manifold Flap; Bank 2: Stuck Open
P2005 - 004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00100100
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 1
Mileage: 105815 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2010.12.06
Time: 11:51:21

Freeze Frame:
RPM: 728 /min
Load: 29.8 %
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Temperature: 33.0°C
Temperature: 13.0°C
Absolute Pres.: 990.0 mbar
Voltage: 13.970 V

008213 - Intake Manifold Flap Position Sensor (Bank 1): Implausible Signal
P2015 - 008 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent - MIL ON
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 10101000
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 2
Mileage: 106605 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2010.12.09
Time: 09:28:09

Freeze Frame:
RPM: 1459 /min
Load: 15.3 %
Speed: 65.0 km/h
Temperature: 85.0°C
Temperature: -1.0°C
Absolute Pres.: 970.0 mbar
Voltage: 14.605 V

008224 - Intake Manifold Flap Position Sensor (Bank 2): Implausible Signal
P2020 - 008 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent - MIL ON
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 10101000
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 2
Mileage: 106605 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2010.12.09
Time: 09:28:09

Freeze Frame:
RPM: 1459 /min
Load: 15.3 %
Speed: 65.0 km/h
Temperature: 85.0°C
Temperature: -1.0°C
Absolute Pres.: 970.0 mbar
Voltage: 14.605 V

Readiness: 0000 0000

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The MIL reset itself once, but now it stays illuminated. I have cleared these codes several times since this scan. The MIL usually illuminates immediately upon a cold start. Additional scans indicate that the 008213 and 008224 codes appear to set before the 008196 and 008197 codes. Looking for any advice as to usual causes or where to begin looking. I found reference to a TSB covering a RS4 displaying the same engine codes. Apparently the cause is a vacuum leak where the hose makes a 90 bend under the manifold (looks like fun to fix), but I'm pretty sure that this TSB does not apply to the A8.

Visual inspection reveals all the linkages for the flap and associated sensors are intact, nothing is broken or disconnected. I cannot move the intake flap at all. The the flap sensors can be wiggled a little.

I checked with the dealer and the parts guy told me the flap motor is $530 and the intake (you must buy an entire new intake to replace the flap is $1500). The parts guy said the techs replace the flap motors all the time on these cars; of course, this vehicle has 65K and is out of warranty.

I plan to run an output test, to actuate the flap motor. If I feel it try to move, then it is probably a stuck flap. I can probably confirm this by removing the linkage to the flap motor and see if I can move the flap by hand. If I can't, I may take the intake off and see if I can repair it. The parts are so expensive, so I don't want to throw parts at it to see if it fixes it. If the flap motor doesn't move, I can probably confirm voltage at the motor with a voltmeter.

I could find no reference to this in the forums (other than the RS4 issue mentioned above). If anyone else has fought this battle, I would love to hear how you solved it. The vehicle drives fine, so this is potentially a very expensive fix to turn off the check engine light. I am seriously considering buying an extended warranty because this one repair could cover the cost of the warranty. Any suggestions on a good extended warranty? Maybe I will live with the check engine light on.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

John

EMJR

I have an Audi S8 and I got the same light and VAG codes on my car.
Bummer because I can't even find where the part is on my car I am determined to do this myself. Tell you what if we keep each other posted we can help each other thru this. There has got to be a better way than the dealer.

Oneplank

I think I may have been able to fix the problem (at least the MIL light has been off for two days now). I'm not sure if this applies to an S8, but at least on the A8, the motors and linkages to drive the flaps in manifold are under the black plastic cover that states the engine displacement. To remove it you pull straight up.

What I did is spray all the linkages and pivots with Ballistol lubricating oil. Then I used my VAG-COM, accessed the engine control module (01) and ran the output tests (ignition on, engine not running). Stepping through the output tests, I was able to actuate both flap motors and let them cycle for about a minute each to make sure they both not binding. I cleared the codes, and the light has stayed off now for two days.

Needless to say, I am very happy. If I took this to a dealer, I figured they would have replaced some parts, with labor, this could have been a $750 to $3,000 repair, depending on how many parts they replaced. I highly recommend that every Audi owner have a VAG-COM. They are not cheap, but they are well worth the money. The first time you use one, you will probably earn back the purchase price.

Hope this helps.

featherpillow

I think I have the same issue with my S8. Just to be clear, we're talking about this assembly:


Correct?

Oneplank

That is one correct assembly and there is lower assembly one that runs out to the sensors on either cylinder head (at least that the way it is on the 4.2L V8.) The linkages are all flat. Run the output tests on your VAG-COM and see if you can see the movement. It moves a lot, you can't miss it. You'll have to step through a bunch of output tests to get to the flap tests. There are two separate tests.

It's been about 10 days and the check engine light is off.

Good Luck.

s4master1

It is a sad day when the owner of an A8 looks into fixing his/her own car due to money concerns.
or choose to live with a car that is telling them something is wrong instead of taking it to a capable repair facility.
hope people don't have the same ideas when it comes to doctors
get extended warranty by all means or get rid of the car as it will give you a lot more trouble than you are used to or can afford.
remember if you can't afford it new you can't afford it used.

featherpillow

I have an S8, and believe me, I'm not fixing my car due to money concerns. I just want to know exactly what issue I have before taking it to the garage. I don't really trust the automotive repair industry.

Don't get me started.

Oneplank

I stand united with featherpillow on this one. I have been developing aftermarket products as a supplier into the industry for many years. Our local Audi dealer is a master of the the parts toss. You'll spend more time than money getting them to actually fix the problem, if they can. If it weren't for Audicare, the dealership wouldn't have a service department. Their blunders are legendary among the Audi owners in the area.

I have two independent Master ASE Audi techs that I lean on for work. I trust these guys and I use them. They spent years working on Audi's and Porsche's before opening their own shops. Both of them indicated that they really didn't want to tackle this mystery. They told me to clear to code or live with it. If things were slow, one said that he would give me a call to take a look. My total time that I invested to solve the problem, maybe 2-3 hours. In the process, I learned quite a bit that system. I am going to share this with the independent Audi techs, next time that I see them.

The truth is, while there may be faster wrenches than me, this is my ride and I am more interested in it's health than the poor tech working at the dealership. This may be unbelievable to some readers, but I actually enjoy working on my cars.

Also, if you think extended warranties are a good investment, you probably think that betting in casinos and buying lottery tickets are good investments too. Insurance companies only survive if they take in more money than they pay out. Hence, on average, you are better off paying for repairs as they occur.

AmoKK

I have had problem with my S8 intake

This thing was a part from my intake and it's almost got into my engine (stuck into valve):


Here where it was:

MP4.2+6.0

Given these are all S8's and would be at least 2007's, putting aside 4/50 factory warranty (or CPO) that would apply for the relevant years/miles), is it possible the emissions warranty covers these issues. Sometimes those can yield a few more years and miles of coverage if you parse them carefully. May depend on the state too (like the CA and NE states that track CA.

I have no experience w/ the S8 (or my W12 or A6 4.2) on intake related systems for emissions warranty coverage, but as soon as I read something that sounds like a CEL is on, that is often the first prereq. for failing a smog check that leads to an emissions warranty scenario.