2007 S8 Power Steering Fluid gone!
12-02-2010, 06:03 AM
#11
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S8 brake fluid loss
I'm amazed that even on my poor man's (4.2L) version with the easy to see reservoir (opaque-you have to remove the cap and wipe the dipstick)that there is no low fluid float. Maybe there is a low pressure warning which indicates a brake problem. My old 1987 5000CS had a float built into the cap ($37.00 cap) as well as a pressure switch which with either one gave a red "brake" warning message.
12-02-2010, 08:23 AM
#12
AudiWorld Member
I'm confused. I have a 2007 S8 and recently the audible beep and flashing "brake" warning light on the dash appeared while driving. I took the car to the dealer who added brake fluid to the system by filling the reservoir under the yellow cap under the hood directly in front to the driver's side dash. Doesn't this contradict the entire thread above ? There seems to be a warning system and there is an easily accessible reservoir to add fluid to. You are respected as knowledgeable on this board. Can you explain the contradiction ? Mine is an early (one of the first) US S8 deliveries of the 2007 model in October of 2006. I'd appreciate your insight. Should I be concerned over the loss of about 4 ounces of brake fluid over 4 years time ? No apparent leaks on the garage floor. Thanks, McBucky
12-04-2010, 07:32 AM
#14
AudiWorld Super User
The Brake fluid level will drop as the brake pads wear on most disc barked vehicles. When the pads are replaced, the pistons that have been extended further to displace the worn brake pads get pushed back into the cylinder(s) machined into the brake calipers. This pushes brake fluid back into the reservoir. Since you added fluid to your low reservoir (we'll assume no leak because if there was a leak, one or two brake applications would expel brake fluid somewhere-hopefully not on the paint of your car giving you a warning again) some fluid will have to be vacuumed/sucked out of the brake fluid reservoir when you replace any brake pads on the car. Otherwise it will ooze out of the vent in the brake fluid resevoir cap causing a lovely puddle in the fresh air intake tray/plenum giving your car a "Essence of Bendix" aroma.
Hope this helps.
12-15-2010, 05:27 PM
#15
Hmm....I have a 2008 S8 and it just started to make a droning sound last week. I am going to take it in next week and will post up the results. If it is the fluid, this seems like a design flaw. Does anyone have any ideas on where this fluid is leaking from?
01-03-2011, 04:05 PM
#17
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Have the W12 in with Audi for the power steering.
I'll post the results when I find out late tomorrow/early Wednesday to see where the fluid level is at.
My SA quoted me $150 if they find no leaks and need to top off the fluid. My W12 is still under factory warranty and also has the prepaid AudiCare maintenance (through the 45k service). The next scheduled service that looks at power steering is 55k.
Should I be liable for this at all? Seems like it should either be a warranty issue or covered under prepaid service if I'm still under 46k on the odometer, about 6 months since the 45k service, and the factory calls for power steering fluid service at 55k?
BTW, I still have time and I will be buying the 7 year/55k-75k prepaid maintenance was well. Even at $1550 quoted price, for a W12 I think it's the way to go. As much as I would like to do this stuff myself being somewhat technically inclined, I don't have the garage/tool setup I need to attempt it and don't think I'll have one soon enough.
My SA quoted me $150 if they find no leaks and need to top off the fluid. My W12 is still under factory warranty and also has the prepaid AudiCare maintenance (through the 45k service). The next scheduled service that looks at power steering is 55k.
Should I be liable for this at all? Seems like it should either be a warranty issue or covered under prepaid service if I'm still under 46k on the odometer, about 6 months since the 45k service, and the factory calls for power steering fluid service at 55k?
BTW, I still have time and I will be buying the 7 year/55k-75k prepaid maintenance was well. Even at $1550 quoted price, for a W12 I think it's the way to go. As much as I would like to do this stuff myself being somewhat technically inclined, I don't have the garage/tool setup I need to attempt it and don't think I'll have one soon enough.
Last edited by ModestW12; 01-03-2011 at 04:18 PM.
01-03-2011, 06:28 PM
#18
AudiWorld Super User
The Germans are very perverse in their service parts and maintenance pricing policies. I can say this as I'm part German.
That said, I assume you have a garage but no tools. By your comments here I'll assume you are reasonably mechanically and technically inclined.
If I were you since you are questioning the cost of non-documented maintenance costs to top up a required fluid; I would take the $1550 that you are prepared to spend on another prepaid maintenance plan and buy:
Ross tech interface for the free VAG-COM software.(I'll assume you have a PC to use since you are on the net).
Bentley service manual software (use the PC you already have to run it)
A floor Jack
Jack Stands
Nice set of Metric hand tools
More tools
Oil change pan, bag o rags, funnel(s)
used milk jugs for used motor oil (free)
cheap multimeter (Harbor Freight has one for $10
Nice LED work light-Griot's Garage has a $40 and a $90 version (I have the $40 version)
Save $200 for a good pressure bleeder for later on. Don't buy it yet. I used to fall for that VW "you MUST change brake fluid every two years" BS. I used to do it on my VW's and Audi's. Once I worked for a former Bendix hydraulic brake engineer. He went over how they did extensive experiments on GM and Ford brake systems to see if VW had a better idea. It is all bunk. Change the fluid when you have to remove a caliper or wheel cylinder. Until then, keep the brake fluid reservoir cap tight and save your clams. Again, I'm a cheapskate but I do change my motor oil at required intervals but don't follow all of the other stuff. I do some stuff based on my experience of slightly under 750k miles of driving my personal vehicles over the years.
Use this to do it yourself.
That said, I assume you have a garage but no tools. By your comments here I'll assume you are reasonably mechanically and technically inclined.
If I were you since you are questioning the cost of non-documented maintenance costs to top up a required fluid; I would take the $1550 that you are prepared to spend on another prepaid maintenance plan and buy:
Ross tech interface for the free VAG-COM software.(I'll assume you have a PC to use since you are on the net).
Bentley service manual software (use the PC you already have to run it)
A floor Jack
Jack Stands
Nice set of Metric hand tools
More tools
Oil change pan, bag o rags, funnel(s)
used milk jugs for used motor oil (free)
cheap multimeter (Harbor Freight has one for $10
Nice LED work light-Griot's Garage has a $40 and a $90 version (I have the $40 version)
Save $200 for a good pressure bleeder for later on. Don't buy it yet. I used to fall for that VW "you MUST change brake fluid every two years" BS. I used to do it on my VW's and Audi's. Once I worked for a former Bendix hydraulic brake engineer. He went over how they did extensive experiments on GM and Ford brake systems to see if VW had a better idea. It is all bunk. Change the fluid when you have to remove a caliper or wheel cylinder. Until then, keep the brake fluid reservoir cap tight and save your clams. Again, I'm a cheapskate but I do change my motor oil at required intervals but don't follow all of the other stuff. I do some stuff based on my experience of slightly under 750k miles of driving my personal vehicles over the years.
Use this to do it yourself.
01-03-2011, 06:39 PM
#19
AudiWorld Super User
I'm w you except on brake fluid...
both for wear issues and water contamination. Fluid change recommendations are widespread for water contamination issues. Probably less an issue where I live actually (dry west) than in humid areas, but still frequently noted. Water contamination that affects boiling point starts to occur w/in the first 12 months even. Obviously part of why folks who track constantly change fluids. VW's boiling point spec is higher than normal DOT 4, but still I prefer to keep any brake fade problem issues to bare minimum.
Other reason though: brake parts wear and deterioration. Water in fluid = rust in cylinder bores. That chews at the brake piston seals found in the master cylinder and wheel cylinders or calipers found at the wheels, and the ABS components in a newer system. The last part is of course big bucks. Having bought older used Audi's back to C1's those parts do corrode internally if run for longer periods unflushed (admittedly more like 5-7 years. I have rebuilt them down to the piston seal level so BTDT. As a DIY'er, cost of flushing (basically a can of ATE Gold Typ 200) at $13 is a small fraction of any hydraulic part.
Other reason though: brake parts wear and deterioration. Water in fluid = rust in cylinder bores. That chews at the brake piston seals found in the master cylinder and wheel cylinders or calipers found at the wheels, and the ABS components in a newer system. The last part is of course big bucks. Having bought older used Audi's back to C1's those parts do corrode internally if run for longer periods unflushed (admittedly more like 5-7 years. I have rebuilt them down to the piston seal level so BTDT. As a DIY'er, cost of flushing (basically a can of ATE Gold Typ 200) at $13 is a small fraction of any hydraulic part.
01-03-2011, 06:59 PM
#20
AudiWorld Super User
Can you confirm what you are buying...
I think you are getting basically a 55K and 65K minor service and a 75K major service.
Parts wise that basically means the following (prices at street/mail order and NOT dealer)
39 qts of oil at $8 = $312
3 oil filters at $25 ish (maybe a bit less): $75
3 oil drain seal rings: $5 (ish)
Twin air filters (major svc only): $90
12 spark plugs (major service only): $150ish
2 intake gaskets to get to plugs (a hidden cost I found if ctually changed and you can only get at dealer for a W12 AFAIK): $150-200 (RIDICULOUS!)
HVAC filter: 40 ish I think
Brake fluid at 6 year point for flush: $15
Make believe grease they supposedly apply to things like sunroof (I bet not...) $10
Top up on wiper fluid (if you believe they do this--hit and miss for me): $5
That's your basic parts bill, plus tax, plus shipping, plus labor (or DIY sweat): Net, on a W12 parts are actually a meaningful % of the bill, so the net for the labor involved isn't that bad. The intake gaskets are probably the biggest hidden cost, but then the 39 qts of oil over three changes is a bit of an eye opener too.
By the way, beyond this, for a car out at 7 years I would probably be doing the rear and center gear oils too (and plan too on mine). Especially since any W12 and S8 with the black painted rear diff (like my 2006) is predicted to fail basically sooner or later per a TSB; the silver later ones are new and improved in theory. Given that part costs literally thousands, I plan to throw a fluid change at it. Since W12's use the super pricy blue ATF, unlike most o my Audis that one I will probably leave be.
Parts wise that basically means the following (prices at street/mail order and NOT dealer)
39 qts of oil at $8 = $312
3 oil filters at $25 ish (maybe a bit less): $75
3 oil drain seal rings: $5 (ish)
Twin air filters (major svc only): $90
12 spark plugs (major service only): $150ish
2 intake gaskets to get to plugs (a hidden cost I found if ctually changed and you can only get at dealer for a W12 AFAIK): $150-200 (RIDICULOUS!)
HVAC filter: 40 ish I think
Brake fluid at 6 year point for flush: $15
Make believe grease they supposedly apply to things like sunroof (I bet not...) $10
Top up on wiper fluid (if you believe they do this--hit and miss for me): $5
That's your basic parts bill, plus tax, plus shipping, plus labor (or DIY sweat): Net, on a W12 parts are actually a meaningful % of the bill, so the net for the labor involved isn't that bad. The intake gaskets are probably the biggest hidden cost, but then the 39 qts of oil over three changes is a bit of an eye opener too.
By the way, beyond this, for a car out at 7 years I would probably be doing the rear and center gear oils too (and plan too on mine). Especially since any W12 and S8 with the black painted rear diff (like my 2006) is predicted to fail basically sooner or later per a TSB; the silver later ones are new and improved in theory. Given that part costs literally thousands, I plan to throw a fluid change at it. Since W12's use the super pricy blue ATF, unlike most o my Audis that one I will probably leave be.