2010 Audi A8: details revealed
01-06-2009, 09:19 AM
#11
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I bet you've been told at least once in your life that you come off as arrogant.
To suggest that news sources can "only" be delusional, stupid, or flat-out lying; as well as AudiWorld forums members "being too **** to deal with it, accept it, learn it and live it, regardless of how they feel about it..." (in another post in this thread)" only reflects your attitudes and personality.
As for your "indescribably more reliable" comment, these survey counts you list go far beyond any statistical error deviation that would constitute that statement. JD can confirm those type of comments with those survey figures to within less than 1% of CR's findings, so for you to suggest CR is 100% right and the others are 100% wrong is very poor statement. It's the survey questions, and the answers- not the volumes of respondents- that are leading them to state otherwise.
said a simpler way.. if all three companies were asking the same survey questions, all three would conclude with the same findings based on their individual survey counts.
BTW, my original comment you decided to "speak your peace about" was wondering what kind of price tag people would estimate the S8 to be, and if you noticed, it said nothing about the type of engine. i could care less with what engine they achieve those figures.
As for your "indescribably more reliable" comment, these survey counts you list go far beyond any statistical error deviation that would constitute that statement. JD can confirm those type of comments with those survey figures to within less than 1% of CR's findings, so for you to suggest CR is 100% right and the others are 100% wrong is very poor statement. It's the survey questions, and the answers- not the volumes of respondents- that are leading them to state otherwise.
said a simpler way.. if all three companies were asking the same survey questions, all three would conclude with the same findings based on their individual survey counts.
BTW, my original comment you decided to "speak your peace about" was wondering what kind of price tag people would estimate the S8 to be, and if you noticed, it said nothing about the type of engine. i could care less with what engine they achieve those figures.
01-07-2009, 12:59 PM
#12
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too much boost required for your hypothetical engines
"The next S8 (as well as the next RS 6 and RS 7) will only get two engines worldwide: a 580 hp gasoline 4.2TFSI V8 (supercharged, NOT twin turbocharged) and a 530 hp diesel 4.2TDI V8 (twin turbocharged).
The next S6 and S7 will also only get two engines worldwide: a 480 hp gasoline 4.0TFSI or 4.2TFSI V8 (also supercharged and NOT twin turbocharged) and a 430 hp diesel 4.0TDI or 4.2TDI V8 (twin turbocharged). These same two engines along with the 380 hp gasoline 4.2FSI (regularly aspirated) will be the only engines for the next A8 and A8L in North America."
A 580 horsepower 4.2 would need too much boost, and probably would not get fuel economy any better than the current 580 horsepower 5.0 V10. A 530 4.2 liter diesel would have to make the same hp per liter as the Audi R10 race car. Think about that. A 480 FI V8 is closer to reality, a 430 horsepower 4 liter TDI is quite far away from reality. A 380 hp NA 4.2 is possible, but a FI engine would likely be more fuel efficient.
The next S6 and S7 will also only get two engines worldwide: a 480 hp gasoline 4.0TFSI or 4.2TFSI V8 (also supercharged and NOT twin turbocharged) and a 430 hp diesel 4.0TDI or 4.2TDI V8 (twin turbocharged). These same two engines along with the 380 hp gasoline 4.2FSI (regularly aspirated) will be the only engines for the next A8 and A8L in North America."
A 580 horsepower 4.2 would need too much boost, and probably would not get fuel economy any better than the current 580 horsepower 5.0 V10. A 530 4.2 liter diesel would have to make the same hp per liter as the Audi R10 race car. Think about that. A 480 FI V8 is closer to reality, a 430 horsepower 4 liter TDI is quite far away from reality. A 380 hp NA 4.2 is possible, but a FI engine would likely be more fuel efficient.
01-07-2009, 02:58 PM
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I have to disagree with you there, chewy (very long)
The old twin turbocharged gasoline 2.7T PFI V6 (with a 6,800 or 7,000 RPM redline) in the B5 RS 4 produced 380 hp and 325 lbs/ft of torque (which is 140.8 hp per liter and 120.3 lbs/ft of torque per liter with 2.7L-this engine in the B5 RS 4 is loaded with very old technology including PFI but with five valves per cylinder/30 valves overall). Wasn't the real world fuel economy on the B5 RS 4 20 to 30 MPG? Plus, this engine was exclusively mated to a relatively low capacity six-speed manual transmission on the B5 RS 4.
From a supercharged 4.2TFSI V8, 580 hp and 472 lbs/ft of torque (which is loaded with modern technology including FSI but with four-valves per cylinder/32 valves overall) is 138.1 hp and 112.4 of torque per liter. All of that modern technology combined with a 7,500 RPM redline (which is as high as you can safely and reliably go with any kind of forced induction) should make this very doable. All of this should give this engine in the D4 S8 and C7 RS 6 and RS 7 real world fuel economy that ranges from 20 to 30 MPG.
Doesn't the twin turbocharged 5.5TDI V10 with 590 hp and 804 lbs/ft of torque (which is 107.3 hp and 146.2 lbs/ft of torque per liter with 5.5L) in the R10 race car have a 6,000 or 6,200 RPM redline? If so, 430 hp and 538 lbs/ft of torque from a twin turbocharged 4.0TDI or 4.2TDI V8 (which is 107.5 hp 134.5 lbs/ft of torque per liter with 4L and 102.4 hp and 128.1 lbs/ft of torque per liter with 4.2L) is doable.
With a 6,500 RPM redline, 530 hp and 590 lbs/ft of torque (which is 126.2 hp and 140.5 lbs/ft of torque per liter with 4.2L) from a twin turbocharged 4.2TDI V8 (all TDI engines-including the 5.5TDI V10 in the R10 race car are loaded with modern technology including CRI-FSI for diesels but with four-valves per cylinder and have been for a couple of years or a few years now) should also be doable. All of this will probably be doable with a lot less boost than you think is required, chewy.
All of the engine outputs mentioned above from all of the engines mentioned above would be very doable requiring much or substantially less boost than you think, chewy.
With a 7,500 RPM redline, 380 hp (which is 90.5 hp per liter with 4.2L) is much more than easily doable from a regularly aspirated 4.2FSI V8.
Plus these V8 engines would be exclusively mated to seven-speed (which could eventually be eight-speed, though this is far from official) S Tronic direct shift gearbox (or DSG for short) or eight-speed Tiptronic automatic transmissions (both of which would be very high capacity).
These multi-gear S Tronic DSG and Tiptronic automatic transmissions, despite their very high capacity, would be smaller and more space efficient, far lighter weight, far more fuel efficient and far cleaner with far lower emissions than that old much lower capacity six-speed manual transmission in the B5 RS 4. All of this makes all of these very high capacity multi gear S Tronic DSG and Tiptronic automatic transmissions much easier to package than that old much lower capacity six-speed manual transmission (which itself was pretty easy to package).
FWIW, when I say capacity regarding transmissions, it means the maximum amount of torque that they can safely and reliably handle.
The 590 ho 5.5TDI V10 in the R10 has to be a Porsche engine.
Why does the 590 hp 5.5TDI V10 in the R10 car have to be a Porsche engine, you will most likely ask?
Because all of the Audi/Lamborghini/Volkswagen longitudinally mounted engines with their 90-degree wide angle V shaped cylinders have such puny blocks that they only allow the following displacements: a minimum of 2.7L and a maximum of 3.2L (V6), a minimum of 3.7L and a maximum of 4.2L (V8), a minimum of 4.7L and a maximum of 5.2L (V10) and, if it were to ever come out, a minimum of 5.7L and a maximum of 6.2L (V12).
Sorry that this reply mesage is so long. However, I am just trying to prove a lot of points.
From a supercharged 4.2TFSI V8, 580 hp and 472 lbs/ft of torque (which is loaded with modern technology including FSI but with four-valves per cylinder/32 valves overall) is 138.1 hp and 112.4 of torque per liter. All of that modern technology combined with a 7,500 RPM redline (which is as high as you can safely and reliably go with any kind of forced induction) should make this very doable. All of this should give this engine in the D4 S8 and C7 RS 6 and RS 7 real world fuel economy that ranges from 20 to 30 MPG.
Doesn't the twin turbocharged 5.5TDI V10 with 590 hp and 804 lbs/ft of torque (which is 107.3 hp and 146.2 lbs/ft of torque per liter with 5.5L) in the R10 race car have a 6,000 or 6,200 RPM redline? If so, 430 hp and 538 lbs/ft of torque from a twin turbocharged 4.0TDI or 4.2TDI V8 (which is 107.5 hp 134.5 lbs/ft of torque per liter with 4L and 102.4 hp and 128.1 lbs/ft of torque per liter with 4.2L) is doable.
With a 6,500 RPM redline, 530 hp and 590 lbs/ft of torque (which is 126.2 hp and 140.5 lbs/ft of torque per liter with 4.2L) from a twin turbocharged 4.2TDI V8 (all TDI engines-including the 5.5TDI V10 in the R10 race car are loaded with modern technology including CRI-FSI for diesels but with four-valves per cylinder and have been for a couple of years or a few years now) should also be doable. All of this will probably be doable with a lot less boost than you think is required, chewy.
All of the engine outputs mentioned above from all of the engines mentioned above would be very doable requiring much or substantially less boost than you think, chewy.
With a 7,500 RPM redline, 380 hp (which is 90.5 hp per liter with 4.2L) is much more than easily doable from a regularly aspirated 4.2FSI V8.
Plus these V8 engines would be exclusively mated to seven-speed (which could eventually be eight-speed, though this is far from official) S Tronic direct shift gearbox (or DSG for short) or eight-speed Tiptronic automatic transmissions (both of which would be very high capacity).
These multi-gear S Tronic DSG and Tiptronic automatic transmissions, despite their very high capacity, would be smaller and more space efficient, far lighter weight, far more fuel efficient and far cleaner with far lower emissions than that old much lower capacity six-speed manual transmission in the B5 RS 4. All of this makes all of these very high capacity multi gear S Tronic DSG and Tiptronic automatic transmissions much easier to package than that old much lower capacity six-speed manual transmission (which itself was pretty easy to package).
FWIW, when I say capacity regarding transmissions, it means the maximum amount of torque that they can safely and reliably handle.
The 590 ho 5.5TDI V10 in the R10 has to be a Porsche engine.
Why does the 590 hp 5.5TDI V10 in the R10 car have to be a Porsche engine, you will most likely ask?
Because all of the Audi/Lamborghini/Volkswagen longitudinally mounted engines with their 90-degree wide angle V shaped cylinders have such puny blocks that they only allow the following displacements: a minimum of 2.7L and a maximum of 3.2L (V6), a minimum of 3.7L and a maximum of 4.2L (V8), a minimum of 4.7L and a maximum of 5.2L (V10) and, if it were to ever come out, a minimum of 5.7L and a maximum of 6.2L (V12).
Sorry that this reply mesage is so long. However, I am just trying to prove a lot of points.
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