View Poll Results: Which brand of spacers would you go with?
Voters: 7. You may not vote on this poll
20mm rear spacers: H&R, ECS or Eibach?
06-22-2011, 07:17 PM
#1
AudiWorld Senior Member
Thread Starter
20mm rear spacers: H&R, ECS or Eibach?
I'm thinking about adding 20mm rear spacers. After performing a ton of research I'm not sure which brand to go with.
ECS is by far least expensive at around $100 w/bolts.
H&R will be around $125 w/bolts.
Eibach is very expensive at around $150 w/bolts.
Based on what I've read on the forum, I'm thinking about going with H&R but I'd like to know what guys think.
Which brand would you go with?
ECS is by far least expensive at around $100 w/bolts.
H&R will be around $125 w/bolts.
Eibach is very expensive at around $150 w/bolts.
Based on what I've read on the forum, I'm thinking about going with H&R but I'd like to know what guys think.
Which brand would you go with?
06-22-2011, 08:22 PM
#2
AudiWorld Super User
I use H&Rs. Further experiences w/ spacers
On H&R's, I like the DRA design. But I found in 20mm sizing they aren't a reliable fit on Audi's and had to go w/ the more conventional DR's. Specifically, the stock lug bolts bottom out into the hub face w/ "new style "RS4 twin seven spoke factory wheels. They didn't with the "old style" nine spoke version. Has to do with a slight change Audi apparently made in finishing the center hub wheel bolt up point and bolt seat area. Obscure, but makes DRA's in 20's unreliable fit wise with at least some wheels. No such issue in the 25's.
By the way, consider which width wheels you are running in your spacer choice. Many posts on the subject don't make clear which Audi OEM wheel was being used, particularly the 8 1/2 width 18's and 19's. More specifically, I think the measurements and ET's will work out that 25's with 8 1/2 factory A8 ET's will give about the same net distance of the wheel and tire from the rear fender lines as 20's with the 9" factory wheels.
I'm also assuming you are talking 20mm spacers in the back by the way. Too big in the front for 9" factory wheels; might just work with the 8 1/2's. If you use them up front, consider going down in front by 5-8mm relative to what you do in back.
If you ever want to push the ragged edge on spacers, search the archives for the old posts from Covert W12. He pushed all of wheels, tires and spacers out to about the max at various points.
Good luck.
By the way, consider which width wheels you are running in your spacer choice. Many posts on the subject don't make clear which Audi OEM wheel was being used, particularly the 8 1/2 width 18's and 19's. More specifically, I think the measurements and ET's will work out that 25's with 8 1/2 factory A8 ET's will give about the same net distance of the wheel and tire from the rear fender lines as 20's with the 9" factory wheels.
I'm also assuming you are talking 20mm spacers in the back by the way. Too big in the front for 9" factory wheels; might just work with the 8 1/2's. If you use them up front, consider going down in front by 5-8mm relative to what you do in back.
If you ever want to push the ragged edge on spacers, search the archives for the old posts from Covert W12. He pushed all of wheels, tires and spacers out to about the max at various points.
Good luck.
06-23-2011, 04:18 AM
#4
AudiWorld Senior Member
Thread Starter
06-23-2011, 04:25 AM
#5
AudiWorld Senior Member
Thread Starter
I'm planning to use them on the back wheels only. I've read somewhere that installing spacers on the front wheels may take a toll on the front end.
I have factory 8 1/2-19' and I was thinking about going with 20mm or 25mm. However after taking some measurements I can probably go as wide as 30mm but that would be border line/fender rubbing situation.
Based on the research/feedback I'm thing about H&R DRs 20mm or 25mm.
I have factory 8 1/2-19' and I was thinking about going with 20mm or 25mm. However after taking some measurements I can probably go as wide as 30mm but that would be border line/fender rubbing situation.
Based on the research/feedback I'm thing about H&R DRs 20mm or 25mm.
On H&R's, I like the DRA design. But I found in 20mm sizing they aren't a reliable fit on Audi's and had to go w/ the more conventional DR's. Specifically, the stock lug bolts bottom out into the hub face w/ "new style "RS4 twin seven spoke factory wheels. They didn't with the "old style" nine spoke version. Has to do with a slight change Audi apparently made in finishing the center hub wheel bolt up point and bolt seat area. Obscure, but makes DRA's in 20's unreliable fit wise with at least some wheels. No such issue in the 25's.
By the way, consider which width wheels you are running in your spacer choice. Many posts on the subject don't make clear which Audi OEM wheel was being used, particularly the 8 1/2 width 18's and 19's. More specifically, I think the measurements and ET's will work out that 25's with 8 1/2 factory A8 ET's will give about the same net distance of the wheel and tire from the rear fender lines as 20's with the 9" factory wheels.
I'm also assuming you are talking 20mm spacers in the back by the way. Too big in the front for 9" factory wheels; might just work with the 8 1/2's. If you use them up front, consider going down in front by 5-8mm relative to what you do in back.
If you ever want to push the ragged edge on spacers, search the archives for the old posts from Covert W12. He pushed all of wheels, tires and spacers out to about the max at various points.
Good luck.
By the way, consider which width wheels you are running in your spacer choice. Many posts on the subject don't make clear which Audi OEM wheel was being used, particularly the 8 1/2 width 18's and 19's. More specifically, I think the measurements and ET's will work out that 25's with 8 1/2 factory A8 ET's will give about the same net distance of the wheel and tire from the rear fender lines as 20's with the 9" factory wheels.
I'm also assuming you are talking 20mm spacers in the back by the way. Too big in the front for 9" factory wheels; might just work with the 8 1/2's. If you use them up front, consider going down in front by 5-8mm relative to what you do in back.
If you ever want to push the ragged edge on spacers, search the archives for the old posts from Covert W12. He pushed all of wheels, tires and spacers out to about the max at various points.
Good luck.
06-23-2011, 02:33 PM
#6
AudiWorld Senior Member
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Last edited by BRK; 06-23-2011 at 02:37 PM.
06-23-2011, 05:22 PM
#7
AudiWorld Super User
Further info...
Here is a link to a reader ride from a few years ago, which includes spacers: https://www.audiworld.com/news/07/re...ides-2006-a8l/.
Notice he has 19's and went to 30mm in rear. Assuming its a 255 and an 8 1/2" factory wheel, as you are thinking that's probably ragged edge. You might search his posts; I think he might have later concluded or suggested backing it off a bit. When I tested with 275's on a 9" factory wheel (and related offsets), it was right at the edge at 25mm. As I mentioned before, I have concluded the 275/9" factory set ups seem to need/permit about 5mm less than the 255/8 1/2" set ups when you work through the math assuming a constant fender position. It might rub in theory at my 25 mm set up--up in the inside of the fender liner near the top of the wheel about 20 degrees back from the vertical axis of the wheel hub from checking it out once carefully. But in practice it didn't and I drove it for several months with no rub ever. Visually is seemed a little much though, so I backed it off to 20mm. Again, up to you to verify, but you may conclude like I did apparently 5 mm should be added from where I am for the smaller tire and wheel widths to make them comparable for the same tire position relative to the fender.
Spacers front vs. rear. In theory it stresses the bearing either way. But rears have somewhat less weight to carry than front; that may argue for a lesser spacer in front, which of course is all the fenders permit anyway. But a lesser offset (lower ET) in the wheel itself also will but more load on the bearing too even with no spacers. If you look at the C5 A6, as between the non-flared fender C5 cars, they were running offsets in the mid 40's factory (very similar to the D3); with the 4.2 and the flared fender they ran 35mm, and 30mm on the RS6. Thus already a 15mm delta on the (heavy) factory RS6 from where they started. But then on the allroad, as I recall they went all the way down to 20mm--now a 25mm change in offset, which in terms of loading should be very similar to just spacing a 45mm ET wheel with a 25mm spacer. Thus, on that car (which was in the general weight zone of the A8 and had the V8 in both the 4.2 and late allroads), they made the decision on a factory basis, and I'm not aware the bearing was modified for it.
My practical experience is I have had no A8 bearing issues. I have had one bad one on the C5 4.2 while still under warranty with the factory 35ET, and one bad one on a much older C3. Neither involved spacers.
Notice he has 19's and went to 30mm in rear. Assuming its a 255 and an 8 1/2" factory wheel, as you are thinking that's probably ragged edge. You might search his posts; I think he might have later concluded or suggested backing it off a bit. When I tested with 275's on a 9" factory wheel (and related offsets), it was right at the edge at 25mm. As I mentioned before, I have concluded the 275/9" factory set ups seem to need/permit about 5mm less than the 255/8 1/2" set ups when you work through the math assuming a constant fender position. It might rub in theory at my 25 mm set up--up in the inside of the fender liner near the top of the wheel about 20 degrees back from the vertical axis of the wheel hub from checking it out once carefully. But in practice it didn't and I drove it for several months with no rub ever. Visually is seemed a little much though, so I backed it off to 20mm. Again, up to you to verify, but you may conclude like I did apparently 5 mm should be added from where I am for the smaller tire and wheel widths to make them comparable for the same tire position relative to the fender.
Spacers front vs. rear. In theory it stresses the bearing either way. But rears have somewhat less weight to carry than front; that may argue for a lesser spacer in front, which of course is all the fenders permit anyway. But a lesser offset (lower ET) in the wheel itself also will but more load on the bearing too even with no spacers. If you look at the C5 A6, as between the non-flared fender C5 cars, they were running offsets in the mid 40's factory (very similar to the D3); with the 4.2 and the flared fender they ran 35mm, and 30mm on the RS6. Thus already a 15mm delta on the (heavy) factory RS6 from where they started. But then on the allroad, as I recall they went all the way down to 20mm--now a 25mm change in offset, which in terms of loading should be very similar to just spacing a 45mm ET wheel with a 25mm spacer. Thus, on that car (which was in the general weight zone of the A8 and had the V8 in both the 4.2 and late allroads), they made the decision on a factory basis, and I'm not aware the bearing was modified for it.
My practical experience is I have had no A8 bearing issues. I have had one bad one on the C5 4.2 while still under warranty with the factory 35ET, and one bad one on a much older C3. Neither involved spacers.
I'm planning to use them on the back wheels only. I've read somewhere that installing spacers on the front wheels may take a toll on the front end.
I have factory 8 1/2-19' and I was thinking about going with 20mm or 25mm. However after taking some measurements I can probably go as wide as 30mm but that would be border line/fender rubbing situation.
Based on the research/feedback I'm thing about H&R DRs 20mm or 25mm.
I have factory 8 1/2-19' and I was thinking about going with 20mm or 25mm. However after taking some measurements I can probably go as wide as 30mm but that would be border line/fender rubbing situation.
Based on the research/feedback I'm thing about H&R DRs 20mm or 25mm.
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06-23-2011, 06:27 PM
#8
AudiWorld Super User
Because...
of what first responder said, just for some very practical reasons, as one example.
In addition, some cars just have the wheels way tucked in. Look at most Toyota's for example. Makes them look pretty dowdy. Bigger picture; gets at appearance and aesthetic issues, usually around giving a car a more hunkered down, tightly packaged look.
Sometimes it can be around altering relative front and rear track which can play into understeer/oversteer, but I doubt few either do this consciously or really even appreciate if/what is going on. If it is just spacing out front and rear consistently, it's pushing out the track generally and assisting stability a small amount.
As to why you would NOT just increase wheel width automatically, besides cost and fitment issues, at some point you just don't want to. More width is more weight. Often (not always) good for braking distance, but typically bad at the margin for aerodynamics, road/tire noise, fuel economy and snow traction. If the alignment isn't right, can introduce more tendency to tramline at pavement transitions and the like.
Back up at altitude, the principal reason is usually a relatively cheap, simple and reversible way to make a desired appearance change.
In addition, some cars just have the wheels way tucked in. Look at most Toyota's for example. Makes them look pretty dowdy. Bigger picture; gets at appearance and aesthetic issues, usually around giving a car a more hunkered down, tightly packaged look.
Sometimes it can be around altering relative front and rear track which can play into understeer/oversteer, but I doubt few either do this consciously or really even appreciate if/what is going on. If it is just spacing out front and rear consistently, it's pushing out the track generally and assisting stability a small amount.
As to why you would NOT just increase wheel width automatically, besides cost and fitment issues, at some point you just don't want to. More width is more weight. Often (not always) good for braking distance, but typically bad at the margin for aerodynamics, road/tire noise, fuel economy and snow traction. If the alignment isn't right, can introduce more tendency to tramline at pavement transitions and the like.
Back up at altitude, the principal reason is usually a relatively cheap, simple and reversible way to make a desired appearance change.
06-23-2011, 11:05 PM
#10
AudiWorld Super User
