Audi A8L or Mercedes S500 4MATIC?
12-12-2007, 08:40 AM
#1
Audi A8L or Mercedes S500 4MATIC?
Wife wants a new (to her) car as a college graduation present to herself. For ~$30k, we could get an '04 Audi A8L or '03-04 Mercedes S500 4MATIC with about the same mileage. Both fits her requirement of a sleek aerodynamic, fullsize luxury car with a reputation for safety, curtain airbags, and AWD. She would absolutely love either one.
Obviously I'll get biased answers here, but I'm curious, why the A8L over the S-class 4MATIC?
If it's the better handling or power, the wife has already said, "I don't care if it feels like driving a couch" and "as long as it's as fast as my current car, it's okay" (anything is probably faster than her current car, 210HP@3800lbs).
Has anyone owned both and can comment on which is less likely to have crippling problems? We're accustomed to 15+yr old domestics, so we're not worried about nuisance problems. It's the major problems that prevent the car from getting to point B from point A that we're worried about. She doesn't want to have to worry about getting stranded!
It seems not many people that own this class of auto do their own work, but I plan to learn. I want to get to know the car inside and out. I realize neither are DIY-friendly, but which one is slightly better? Which one requires fewer proprietary fluids? For which one can I go to a local auto parts store and buy air, oil, and fuel filters? The wife is leaning more towards the A8L looks-wise, but I'm kind of leaning more towards the S-class because it uses a timing chain instead of belt, separate front diff, driveshaft, and transfer case (like a truck) instead of an all-in-one assembly. However, if the belt can be replaced by a DIYer in a weekend and the transaxle seldom gives problems, those may be non-issues.
Obviously I'll get biased answers here, but I'm curious, why the A8L over the S-class 4MATIC?
If it's the better handling or power, the wife has already said, "I don't care if it feels like driving a couch" and "as long as it's as fast as my current car, it's okay" (anything is probably faster than her current car, 210HP@3800lbs).
Has anyone owned both and can comment on which is less likely to have crippling problems? We're accustomed to 15+yr old domestics, so we're not worried about nuisance problems. It's the major problems that prevent the car from getting to point B from point A that we're worried about. She doesn't want to have to worry about getting stranded!
It seems not many people that own this class of auto do their own work, but I plan to learn. I want to get to know the car inside and out. I realize neither are DIY-friendly, but which one is slightly better? Which one requires fewer proprietary fluids? For which one can I go to a local auto parts store and buy air, oil, and fuel filters? The wife is leaning more towards the A8L looks-wise, but I'm kind of leaning more towards the S-class because it uses a timing chain instead of belt, separate front diff, driveshaft, and transfer case (like a truck) instead of an all-in-one assembly. However, if the belt can be replaced by a DIYer in a weekend and the transaxle seldom gives problems, those may be non-issues.
12-12-2007, 10:18 AM
#3
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Most definitely go with the Audi (here is why; long)
Admittedly, The A8L is far from a Lexus LS in quality, reliability, durability and dependability.
However, the A8L's quality, reliability, durability and dependability (or for that matter, old and especially new, any Audi's quality, reliability, durability and dependability) are Lexus and Toyota like compared to any 21st century Mercedes S Class.
Arguably, 21st century S Class Benzes (or any 21st century Benzes for that matter) are the biggest trash cans out there and by a sizeable margin.
All of the above is based on what I have read in Consumer Reports (which has acknowledged a substantial improvement in quality, reliability, durability and dependability for Audi). Consumer Reports says that MB's quality, reliability, durability and dependability is the worst there is with Jaguar still being down in the dumps in quality, reliability, durability and dependability.
CR also acknowledges the following: Audi resale value, while still well below Lexus, Toyota and BMW has also improved substantially while MB resale value is significantly worse and Jaguar is still at the bottom of the barrel in resale value
JD Power and Associates and Strategic Vision beg to differ. They are under the delusion about the following: MB's (and Gaguar's-err-Jaguar's) quality, reliability, durability and dependability has improved significantly with MB resale values going back up, Audi's resale values still down in the dumps and jaguar now ahead of Audi in resale value.
Keep in mind, however, that CR alone generally surveys 800,000+ vehicle owners a year (CR alone surveyed 1,300,000+ vehicle owners in 2006). JD P&A always has and still does survey a measly 300,000+ vehicle owners a year. SV always has and still surveys a laughable 100,000+ vehicle owners a year.
This means that CR alone typically surveys twice as many vehicles owners per year as JD P&A and SV combined. In 2006, CR alone surveyed 900,000+ more vehicle owners that JD P&A and SV combined surveyed in 2006.
Therefore, CR is almost indescribably more reliable as an automotive source (and an excellent and extraordinarily reliable automotive source overall) than JD P&A and SV combined (who combined are **** poor as automotive sources; alone, JD P&A and SV are catastrophically **** poor as automotive sources)
Even though my Uncle Joe knows that Audi quality, reliability, durability and dependability is quite a ways from stellar, (he has never owned or leased an Audi once in the 55+years he has been alive) he no longer thinks that Audi's quality, reliability, durability and dependability is awful.
My Uncle Joe had a three year lease on a 2003 MB CLK500 coupe back in October 2002 which he was supposed to lease until October 2005. He terminated the lease on that trash can 10 to 12 months early, because it was almost as problematic as his 1973 Chevrolet Vega that he owned from 1974 to 1975, 1976 or 1977. He then realized that when it comes to a vehicle that is problematic that Audi is nowhere near as awful as a 21st century MB.
In fact, on Easter Sunday in 2005, when I told my Uncle Joe that CR rates MB's quality, reliability, durability and dependability lower than Gaguar-err-Jaguar and lower or significantly lower than, again, old and especially newer, any Audi's quality, reliability, durability and dependability, his exact words were "I don't disagree."
And just like me, my Uncle Joe knows that as an automotive source, that CR is gold or platinum and that JD P&A and SV are garbage.
However, the A8L's quality, reliability, durability and dependability (or for that matter, old and especially new, any Audi's quality, reliability, durability and dependability) are Lexus and Toyota like compared to any 21st century Mercedes S Class.
Arguably, 21st century S Class Benzes (or any 21st century Benzes for that matter) are the biggest trash cans out there and by a sizeable margin.
All of the above is based on what I have read in Consumer Reports (which has acknowledged a substantial improvement in quality, reliability, durability and dependability for Audi). Consumer Reports says that MB's quality, reliability, durability and dependability is the worst there is with Jaguar still being down in the dumps in quality, reliability, durability and dependability.
CR also acknowledges the following: Audi resale value, while still well below Lexus, Toyota and BMW has also improved substantially while MB resale value is significantly worse and Jaguar is still at the bottom of the barrel in resale value
JD Power and Associates and Strategic Vision beg to differ. They are under the delusion about the following: MB's (and Gaguar's-err-Jaguar's) quality, reliability, durability and dependability has improved significantly with MB resale values going back up, Audi's resale values still down in the dumps and jaguar now ahead of Audi in resale value.
Keep in mind, however, that CR alone generally surveys 800,000+ vehicle owners a year (CR alone surveyed 1,300,000+ vehicle owners in 2006). JD P&A always has and still does survey a measly 300,000+ vehicle owners a year. SV always has and still surveys a laughable 100,000+ vehicle owners a year.
This means that CR alone typically surveys twice as many vehicles owners per year as JD P&A and SV combined. In 2006, CR alone surveyed 900,000+ more vehicle owners that JD P&A and SV combined surveyed in 2006.
Therefore, CR is almost indescribably more reliable as an automotive source (and an excellent and extraordinarily reliable automotive source overall) than JD P&A and SV combined (who combined are **** poor as automotive sources; alone, JD P&A and SV are catastrophically **** poor as automotive sources)
Even though my Uncle Joe knows that Audi quality, reliability, durability and dependability is quite a ways from stellar, (he has never owned or leased an Audi once in the 55+years he has been alive) he no longer thinks that Audi's quality, reliability, durability and dependability is awful.
My Uncle Joe had a three year lease on a 2003 MB CLK500 coupe back in October 2002 which he was supposed to lease until October 2005. He terminated the lease on that trash can 10 to 12 months early, because it was almost as problematic as his 1973 Chevrolet Vega that he owned from 1974 to 1975, 1976 or 1977. He then realized that when it comes to a vehicle that is problematic that Audi is nowhere near as awful as a 21st century MB.
In fact, on Easter Sunday in 2005, when I told my Uncle Joe that CR rates MB's quality, reliability, durability and dependability lower than Gaguar-err-Jaguar and lower or significantly lower than, again, old and especially newer, any Audi's quality, reliability, durability and dependability, his exact words were "I don't disagree."
And just like me, my Uncle Joe knows that as an automotive source, that CR is gold or platinum and that JD P&A and SV are garbage.
12-12-2007, 10:31 AM
#4
Either car COULD give you problems.
The 04 A8L was the "launch" year for that platform and a number of cars, including mine, were a disaster. Some are still running well so it is incumbant for you to get the completre history on both cars. Personally, unless I know the car inside and out(buying it after the end of a lease), I would steer clear of a 3-4 year old Benz or Audi. DIY is only in the vocabulary for a select few for either car and it really is a crapshoot when it comes down to reliability. When I was looking for my next vehicle in 04, I had found a new E350 4-matic and was all set to sign the papers when I decided to go back to the service area and speak with some of the mechanics. One actually said that if I get "lucky', Ill only have a few issues. I left skidmarks in front of the dealers showroom!!! I ended up with the Audi and it was, by far, the worst vehicle experience Ive ever had. The "problem" at this level is that your heart may hold your head captive to the detriment of your sanity. Think this one through and good luck!
12-12-2007, 10:55 AM
#5
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Reliable Luxury for $30K = 2004-2006 Lexus LS430
A reliable Japanese S Class with good resale value. I had an 2001 which is 90% the same. Oil changes are easy and only require 4 1/2 qts of oil! Regular ole toyota oil filter you'd find anywhere. I owned it for 2 yrs then sold it to my friend whose had it for another 2 yrs. The check engine light never came on and he finally ran into his 1st problem, a blown strut which probably could have been avoided if he didn't lower the car and put heavy 20" wheels on it.
Great touch screen Nav and hvac. I'm thinking about getting a 2005 "sport" model with 18" wheel package. If interested go on the clublexus.com forum. You'll see hardly any posts about car problems.
Some will say the car has no soul, It's butter smooth, and so quiet that it sould like it has an electric engine
Great touch screen Nav and hvac. I'm thinking about getting a 2005 "sport" model with 18" wheel package. If interested go on the clublexus.com forum. You'll see hardly any posts about car problems.
Some will say the car has no soul, It's butter smooth, and so quiet that it sould like it has an electric engine
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12-12-2007, 11:40 AM
#9
No AWD is a deal killer...
The LS430 sounds great and we could get an older one for a lot less since that body style dates back to 01 as you said, but the wife wants AWD. She's had RWD cars before and didn't like it. Granted, they didn't have TCS or stability control, but she's pretty set on AWD or at least FWD.
The LS does resemble the S-Class, but my wife has said they don't stand out to her like the S-Class does. I actually don't like the styling of the LS at all, but I think the S-Class looks great. I think it has something to do with the height of the hood, the roofline, and rake of the windshield. The LS just looks chunky, bulky, and tall, not nearly as sleek and streamlined as the S-Class. Looks are subjective though, and I don't think my wife dislikes their looks as much as I do so my opinion on that probably doesn't count.
The LS does resemble the S-Class, but my wife has said they don't stand out to her like the S-Class does. I actually don't like the styling of the LS at all, but I think the S-Class looks great. I think it has something to do with the height of the hood, the roofline, and rake of the windshield. The LS just looks chunky, bulky, and tall, not nearly as sleek and streamlined as the S-Class. Looks are subjective though, and I don't think my wife dislikes their looks as much as I do so my opinion on that probably doesn't count.
12-12-2007, 11:51 AM
#10
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Why not get a Lexus GS300 or 350 AWD
It's not as big as an A8, nor as fast, however it's way more reliable than an 8 or Benz, and you can get it in all wheel drive.
I've now driven 32K trouble free miles, cost me nothing more than regular maintenance and gas. I think the new GS looks very sleek, and there are lots of nice features. My favorite is that all the electronics and electrical gizmos work without shorting out!!!!
I've owned 4 Audis, just never back to back, because the pain was always too fresh! I love my Audis, but it is nice to have something that works as designed and that is supported by a dealer experience where the service people actually treat you well. My neighbor had the motor on his entry level ES, bought at a used car dealer, replaced at no cost to him, by the Lexus dealer, at 113,000 miles. My A8 tranny went out at 52K miles and I was told by Audi, Tough Luck!
Anyways, try the AWD GS, you might like it.
I've now driven 32K trouble free miles, cost me nothing more than regular maintenance and gas. I think the new GS looks very sleek, and there are lots of nice features. My favorite is that all the electronics and electrical gizmos work without shorting out!!!!
I've owned 4 Audis, just never back to back, because the pain was always too fresh! I love my Audis, but it is nice to have something that works as designed and that is supported by a dealer experience where the service people actually treat you well. My neighbor had the motor on his entry level ES, bought at a used car dealer, replaced at no cost to him, by the Lexus dealer, at 113,000 miles. My A8 tranny went out at 52K miles and I was told by Audi, Tough Luck!
Anyways, try the AWD GS, you might like it.