Considering an A8 questions
05-19-2010, 07:04 AM
#11
AudiWorld Super User
Sorry, but try again...
...not sure I buy Consumer Reports reference, and I'm not a whiner on this board either, which I frankly find kind of insulting. Read your post again and consider editing it; seems to be the innuendo. Add to that the "dreadfully unreliable car" I drive while you're at it. You don't know my car, nor do you know my dealer. Really don't need sweeping, indicting statements either. You seem to have a long post history, but this one really surprises me I guess. Feel free to review my post history if you need to validate my credentials and real knowledge of the car against the wunderkinder at CR and the other publication, which actually doesn't ring a bell with me.
I subscribe to Consumer Reports. I never fill out their survey. Their testing is great, yet I find their reporting/conclusions often simplistic. I think they also have a statistically biased reporting base (because of the nature of their readership in turn), so question the quality of the data they end up with. Classic serious issue in statistics that your sample base has to be representative.
At a more detailed level, historically they also often say they don't have enough A8 data to report. I'm scratching my head remembering (I think) they require new owners to report (not used ones), and Audi A8 sales have declined year over year. And, since the A8 W12 sells in less volume than like a Bentley or maybe even a Lambo, how did they all of a sudden come up with enough data reporting in to now have a statistically relevant sample? When the W12 was intro'ed Audi only expected to sell 200 a year, and it wouldn't surprise me if they sold 50 or fewer in each year from 2007 through 2009 once the S8 came out. Defies me how they could have gotten a statistically relevant sample, let alone much of ANY sample of actual W12 original owners. More generally with an oft lack of data in some earlier years, did all of a sudden all the new-car-purchased-only A8 buyers rush to subscribe and fill out the survey? And, that with a car (like other higher end ones) that is leased and thus turned over a lot to start with? All seems odd to me having followed their data over the years and well as some methodology they discuss.
Meanwhile, the results are counterintuitive since in the W12 virtually nothing changed from 2006 to 2007 except the rear camera, while in the 4.2 the FSI motor was introduced and went through some early teething pains in 2007; ditto on the S8. Very little changed otherwise from 2006 to 2007; the update was in 2008. Thus, for several factual reasons specific to knowledge about the car, the data also seems suspect. Net, why I also continue to question the end quality of what they report.
I subscribe to Consumer Reports. I never fill out their survey. Their testing is great, yet I find their reporting/conclusions often simplistic. I think they also have a statistically biased reporting base (because of the nature of their readership in turn), so question the quality of the data they end up with. Classic serious issue in statistics that your sample base has to be representative.
At a more detailed level, historically they also often say they don't have enough A8 data to report. I'm scratching my head remembering (I think) they require new owners to report (not used ones), and Audi A8 sales have declined year over year. And, since the A8 W12 sells in less volume than like a Bentley or maybe even a Lambo, how did they all of a sudden come up with enough data reporting in to now have a statistically relevant sample? When the W12 was intro'ed Audi only expected to sell 200 a year, and it wouldn't surprise me if they sold 50 or fewer in each year from 2007 through 2009 once the S8 came out. Defies me how they could have gotten a statistically relevant sample, let alone much of ANY sample of actual W12 original owners. More generally with an oft lack of data in some earlier years, did all of a sudden all the new-car-purchased-only A8 buyers rush to subscribe and fill out the survey? And, that with a car (like other higher end ones) that is leased and thus turned over a lot to start with? All seems odd to me having followed their data over the years and well as some methodology they discuss.
Meanwhile, the results are counterintuitive since in the W12 virtually nothing changed from 2006 to 2007 except the rear camera, while in the 4.2 the FSI motor was introduced and went through some early teething pains in 2007; ditto on the S8. Very little changed otherwise from 2006 to 2007; the update was in 2008. Thus, for several factual reasons specific to knowledge about the car, the data also seems suspect. Net, why I also continue to question the end quality of what they report.
Last edited by MP4.2+6.0; 05-20-2010 at 07:01 AM.
05-19-2010, 11:13 AM
#12
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the 2006+ A8 and A8L 4.2, 2007+ A8L W12 and S8 are substantially more reliable (and very reliable overall) than the 2004 A8L 4.2, 2005 A8 and A8L 4.2, 2005 A8L W12 and 2006 A8L W12.
Don't let a few disgruntled owners (who got lemons, have incompetent dealers or both of the above which is painfully obvious, FWIW) of the 2006+ A8 and A8L 4.2, 2007+ A8L W12 and S8 on any Audi message boards (who make up for a measly .25% of Audi owners worldwide) who had problems (mostly North American owners; Audi and their dealer networks and importers are still much better overseas than in North America where Audi and their dealer networks and importers have, in fact improved significantly) with these usually good Audi models and model years discourage from buying these usually good Audi models and model years certified pre owned or used.
However, stay away from the 2004 A8L 4.2, 2005 A8 and A8L 4.2, 2005 A8L W12 and 2006 A8L W12 as these Audi models truly are dreadfully unreliable.
FWIW, Audi owners that reply to CR's and TD's surveys make up for a far greater percentage of Audi owners worldwide than Audi owners on all of the Audi message boards. If you want to know what kind of dependability, durability, quality, reliability, satisfaction and service to typically expect from all vehicle brands (not just Audi) and vehicle corporations (not just the Volkswagen/Audi Group, their models and their dealer networks and importers, CR and TD are worlds more reliable sources than message boards for all vehicles (not just Audis).
Apparently, I can not stress all of the above enough because of the few disgruntled owners on the Audi message boards (who, again, got lemons, have incompetent dealers or both of the above which is painfully obvious, FWIW) who own any of the Audi models and model years that are generally good that these few disgruntled owners do and did, in fact, have problems with.
Don't let a few disgruntled owners (who got lemons, have incompetent dealers or both of the above which is painfully obvious, FWIW) of the 2006+ A8 and A8L 4.2, 2007+ A8L W12 and S8 on any Audi message boards (who make up for a measly .25% of Audi owners worldwide) who had problems (mostly North American owners; Audi and their dealer networks and importers are still much better overseas than in North America where Audi and their dealer networks and importers have, in fact improved significantly) with these usually good Audi models and model years discourage from buying these usually good Audi models and model years certified pre owned or used.
However, stay away from the 2004 A8L 4.2, 2005 A8 and A8L 4.2, 2005 A8L W12 and 2006 A8L W12 as these Audi models truly are dreadfully unreliable.
FWIW, Audi owners that reply to CR's and TD's surveys make up for a far greater percentage of Audi owners worldwide than Audi owners on all of the Audi message boards. If you want to know what kind of dependability, durability, quality, reliability, satisfaction and service to typically expect from all vehicle brands (not just Audi) and vehicle corporations (not just the Volkswagen/Audi Group, their models and their dealer networks and importers, CR and TD are worlds more reliable sources than message boards for all vehicles (not just Audis).
Apparently, I can not stress all of the above enough because of the few disgruntled owners on the Audi message boards (who, again, got lemons, have incompetent dealers or both of the above which is painfully obvious, FWIW) who own any of the Audi models and model years that are generally good that these few disgruntled owners do and did, in fact, have problems with.
I'll take serious issue with your statement that the 2004 A8L 4.2 is "dreadfully unreliable".
Mine has nearly 100k on it and has been a very reliable car.
I own two Hondas (2005 Accord Hybrid and 2010 Odyssey Touring) and haven't found my car to be any less reliable than they have been -- just more expensive to do work on at the dealer. It is a better conceived and more rewarding to drive vehicle than either of the Hondas and offers a substantial amount of technology not available on them.
The mechanical issues my A8 has had have nearly all been ones covered by Audi's TSB's so they would be no cost repairs regardless of whether the car is under warranty or not. Those included thermostat replacement, front bushing replacement, and the recent ignition coil replacement. I have maintained the car per manufacturer recommendations and would gladly get another 2004 A8L so long as it has not been abused.
Good luck with your search.
05-19-2010, 12:28 PM
#13
AudiWorld Senior Member
OK, here's my two cents worth: bought my 04 one year ago this month with 65K and it now has 87K. My car was a previous Lemon Law buyback (due to issues with the trunk closer)and a repo with some body damage on the rear quarter. My total repairs: $600 (last month one of my fuel pumps failed) And I say that ain't a bad maintenence record for a $90,000 car (mine has everything) and ,while I wish that I had a car that had been pampered its whole life, it goes to show that that predicting a cars reliability is not an exact science.
My mechanic cites the only absolute truism involving such matters: "anything with t*ts or tires is eventually gonna break your heart and cost you money". So my advice is to pick one that gives you a lot of pleasure in the meantime and don't worry.
My mechanic cites the only absolute truism involving such matters: "anything with t*ts or tires is eventually gonna break your heart and cost you money". So my advice is to pick one that gives you a lot of pleasure in the meantime and don't worry.
05-19-2010, 05:00 PM
#14
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I posted all of the issues the previous owner and I have had to deal with on my 2004 A8 here: https://www.audiworld.com/forums/sho...php?p=23978793
I bought the car with just over 100K miles on it, and have put close to 13K on it over the past year. So far, other than an oil change, I've had no issues, although there are a few things on my to-do list.
IMO, if you're not willing or able to put in your own elbow grease and have to have the dealer maintain the car, then this car is not for you. Dealer maintenance costs will quickly dwarf your initial purchase price.
l8r)
I bought the car with just over 100K miles on it, and have put close to 13K on it over the past year. So far, other than an oil change, I've had no issues, although there are a few things on my to-do list.
IMO, if you're not willing or able to put in your own elbow grease and have to have the dealer maintain the car, then this car is not for you. Dealer maintenance costs will quickly dwarf your initial purchase price.
l8r)
05-20-2010, 04:55 AM
#15
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Rowlie: you mention TSBs being covered whether the car is under warranty or not and I wanted to ask if this was 100% correct? My understanding has always been it's covered, cost free, if it's a recall, not a TSB. TSB's were just to assist technicians on known issues and cost of parts and labor was still on the owner if the car was out of warranty.
Is my understanding correct?
05-20-2010, 07:13 PM
#17
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I would like to agree with the more recent posts... I am not quite sure what the purpose of the rant was all about.
Rowlie: you mention TSBs being covered whether the car is under warranty or not and I wanted to ask if this was 100% correct? My understanding has always been it's covered, cost free, if it's a recall, not a TSB. TSB's were just to assist technicians on known issues and cost of parts and labor was still on the owner if the car was out of warranty.
Is my understanding correct?
Rowlie: you mention TSBs being covered whether the car is under warranty or not and I wanted to ask if this was 100% correct? My understanding has always been it's covered, cost free, if it's a recall, not a TSB. TSB's were just to assist technicians on known issues and cost of parts and labor was still on the owner if the car was out of warranty.
Is my understanding correct?
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