jersh

Quick background - leased a 2006 SWB a8 three years ago with 19" wheels and Pirelli p6, and it was golden for three years - total perfection. I had that car up to 130+ on multiple occasions on the salt flats, etc., and never felt even the slightest vibration. Basically, the car was what you would expect an a8 to be and I never gave it one thought.

So when the 2006 lease ended, I immediately specced out and leased an identical car - 2009 SWB - same options, same color, etc. The only difference was, upon delivery I immediately placed AUDI FACTORY s8 20" wheels (the double-five spoke ones) on it along with Pirelli P-Zero Nero all seasons (275/35 zr20) based on this boards recommendation.

The problem is ...

This car shakes. Always. At low speeds, at high speeds, on perfect roads ... the car just shakes. You can feel it in your butt, you can feel it in your arms on the armrests ... if your knee slides over to rest on the center console, your knee will be shaking. If there is no passenger in the car, I can look over at the front passenger headrest and watch it bouncing back and forth about 1/2 inch in each direction ... constantly.

Service manager said he felt it in his butt while sitting in the rear seat, and techs that drive the car can feel the car shaking and the steering wheel oscillating as well.

BUT it's not a tire/wheel balance issue, nor is it an alignment/toe issue. The car has had its tires balanced 6 times in the first 5 months of its life, and the wheels are perfectly true, without dents. Alignment is golden.

The final straw was the service department putting 18" wheels and tires on the car and telling me that the problem gets better, but is still there. They then informed me that there was nothing more they can do, since everything is technically in spec. So even though everyone feels this and knows that I am not just imagining things, there is nothing else for service department to do.

So what do I do ?

Basically I bought, and paid for, an a8, and got a piece of junk instead. This is not what a nice car of any kind should feel like, and certainly not a "flagship" being sold for almost $90k. Furthermore, I am getting tired of hearing about my wheels and tires when this is an _audi provided_ combination that is in use on their most expensive and luxurious cars (w12). I don't think these w12 drivers are shaking and rattling themselves down the road like I am ...

All comments appreciated, but I am not so interested in diagnosis - I don't have any more time to waste on this, and audi service has already stated that the car is "operational". I am interested in my legal and financial options.

Operational .... yeah, that's why I got an a8 ...

awdinut

I had an A8 that had wheel/tire vibrations that could not be solved. I had the tires balanced 3 times in the course of a couple hundred miles, I had the drive shafts checked, etc. The wheels were perfectly true. The tires were soooo perfect that 3 of the four balanced to 0's WITHOUT any weights!!! One tire occaisionally will do that, but three is unheard of. Still I had the vibrations in my ***, but the steering wheel was dead calm. When its in your *** its the rear wheels/tires...or so we've always thought.

I took the car to a performance tire shop where they had a ROADFORCE balancer, and,just as important, knew how to use it properly. I tured out that two of the perfectly balanced wheels/tires were out of ROADFORCE specs. And it turned out to be the fronts that were off!! The hubcentric forces thansmit into the unibody and not the suspension as do the weight induced forces, so I felt the problem in my *** instead of the wheel. They adjusted the tires' orientation to the wheel to counterbalance out the excess roadforces and get them in spec.

When they had finished, my agrivating vibrations were finnaly cured. So,if you have true wheels, and no problems with belts in the tires (and I have seen brand new tires have bad belts) then you should try roadforce balancing. But, just having a roadforce machine is no good if a minimum wage dufuss is doing the calibration. Make sure you get a good tire tech. I know you did not want tech talk, but I have sold cars for 20 years and I deal with tire/wheel issues all the time and I had never seen anything like the problem I was having with my own A8. Let me know if this helps.

jersh

Yes, I learned all about the difference between a normal and a roadforce balance. Originally my dealer claimed that my other balances were failing because they were not RF balances, and the final one I did (5th or 6th one total) was a roadforce balance where the tech got them all the way down to 10 pounds or less per tire.

So on the one hand, I have explored this avenue and have had the tires road force balanced, and the problem persists. On the other hand, I have no idea if "10 pounds" is a near-perfect number for a RF balance, or if they should be down at 2 or 1 or zero pounds.

Perhaps you could comment ?

awdinut

10 lbs or less is fine. Sorry to hear that Roadforce was not the answer...your problem is baffling. I can only think of one time that an Audi has shed a balance weight off of a center drive shaft, but it has happened and it causes vibration everywhere. And, sadly, I am now out of ideas. Good luck and let us know, as Paul Harvey would say, the rest of the story.

jersh

Well, that's the point here ... what is the rest of the story, from a financial and legal standpoint.

Anyone ?

If you buy a blah blah flagship blah blah pinnacle of automotive excellence blah blah, and it drives like a minivan, that's just the breaks ?

PsYcHe UK

Depends on the law in the US, but given that all the techs can feel it and agree that it's wrong, you should be able to reject the car. UK law would definitely be OK with that, but not sure on the US, but given the lawsuit culture over there, you should definitely be able to get somewhere quicly without resorting to court.

ljackski

Depends on your state of residence. CA lemon law - more than 3X in the shop for the same problem or 30 days in the shop without resolve. Then you can proceed with lemon law. Your dealer has to get involved and so does AoA. They will send out a field rep. then you are basically awarded a replacement with same value/options, etc. or you can get a refund less usage/mileage. Should be a zero sum at this early in the car's life. I would contact the MANAGER of the dealership. You did buy an expensive car and you should be treated as such.

jersh

Looks like there will be no remedy from the dealer.

Shop techs and management are slowly morphing their story from "I feel exactly what you are talking about" to "I really don't feel that".

Interestingly, that is followed by "switching to a higher profile tire and wheel combination will make those vibrations go away". That is, the vibrations they do not feel.

Unspoken, of course, is the (ridiculous) assumption that s8 and w12 owners that run factory provided 20" wheels on 100k+ cars are bumping and shaking down the road, and that is somehow normal. Sure they are.

The bottom line:

Drive your car for a full day before signing for it. They'd have figured this out if I had refused delivery. Now all they do is balance the tires and shrug, refusing to do even the slightest inquiry beyond tire balancing.


P.S. This says a lot about quality control and post-production specs/testing.

derfA8L

I'd insist that the service manager make an appointment with the regional AoA rep to test drive the car. The dealer is limited in what they can do on their own---it's basically the regional rep's call, and within his/her discretion. I'd be there to go on the test and make your case, in as much as the service manager doesn't sound like he's willing/capable of supporting you. I'd also call Audi customer care and start a case file; this may also get the regional rep moving a bit faster (perhaps).

Good luck, and actually good advice about taking a long pre-delivery test drive.

alxzero

Hi

Have an w12L with 29k miles and the same problem.I come to the crazy's field but no one give me an answer about this.The rims and the wheela are checked hundreds times (perfect) but is always the same...shaking and shaking again,anytime,any conditions.

I suppose this born from the transmission.