mishar

From A7 forum, but Quattro is Quattro.

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MP4.2+6.0

Glad to see Quattro is the key differentiating theme, though they had to insert that lighting reference.

This after the fool from Audi corporate seemed to say at the last trade show just recently that they were primarily the LED car company, almost like they are selling designer jewelry. Hope that guy gets the heave ho since jewelry fashion comes and goes, let alone a poor understanding of their positioning. Also noting the car publications are already starting to say LED fashion is already getting overdone.

Quattro is a far better selling point if they want to be Art of Engineering (yes older theme; but see which passes the test of time better) instead of Art of Art. They got it right here.

mishar

Value of LED and Quattro can't be compared at all. Marketing problem is that 4MATIC and xDrive are even a bit better than Quattro since both have front axle moved forward allowing for better weight distribution. Subaru exploits ridiculous "symmetrical" attribute, but it works. I've heard from some engineers that Subaru all wheel drive is better than Quattro because it is symmetrical. They can't explain why but it must be. They own Subaru.

MP4.2+6.0

Slogans aside, my sense is Audi and Subaru retain the halo effect for perceived top true AWD systems. My own sense is BMW Xdrive is not very well regarded in their sedans (non-SUVs) because it alters/reduces the traditional BMW road feel materially. Seems more a given (accepted) in the X5's and such. Who knows if the non-aficionado's even know that though. Not sure about 4Matic. Where I live, most AWD Merc's have ended up being GL's of late--one of the current stereotypical upscale soccer mom rides of choice (with Q5's, Q7's (particularly with the TDI these days), hybrid Highlanders and the occasional Land Rover). That "fashion" changes every few years here too.

For my basic Tahoe AWD acceptance test, when the snow comes out, most anything that is non SUV/pickup continues to vaporize other than Audi's and Subaru's--usually pretty well used. 90% are a just a sea of forgettable SUV's though. Fewer Audi's (often turbo'ed or blown given the altitude) and a lot more SUV's (and Priui even in winter w/ snow...) in Aspen from my recent visit compared to 20 years on, but likewise kind of sorted still to Audi's and Subaru's for most of the AWD sedans & true wagons mixed in w/ the 80% SUV's.

Yes, Audi does need to fix its axle positioning. They tried with the D3 some as the starting intro by swapping the torque converter position to behind the axle, but still a lot more to go. The resulting front overhang is pretty ridiculous in this day and age. Back to the LED's, kind of makes them the proverbial lipstick on pigs up in front. In the propaganda wars though about AWD, my take is they were getting beaten more by the Acura type SH-AWD with quiet brake intervention to tighten up the handling. But I see Audi is getting into that game now, having already moved its front rear split toward the rear in its last round of tweaks--from about the D3 S8 on.

Mister Bally

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. Whether on full time all wheel drive systems or LED lighting. And no, I don't have any on my exterior (other than the tail lights) nor do I plan to retrofit any. My stock incandescant lights are just fine and the included price with the car fits my budget perfectly.

mishar

Yes, I forgot Acura. They have exactly same problem as Audi - 60% of weight on the front axle. And both are trying to overcome that in the same wrong way - by sliding rear end. If you analyze how Acura SH is working you will see few things. First that it is terribly complicated, than that it has two very, very short shifted gears, one for each wheel. In the curve it shifts outer rear wheel in the slightly longer gear so it is forced to spin a bit loosing some grip. That prevents under steering but car steel curves as fast as front end can hold. Same thing is with S8. More torque on the lighter axle makes wheels spin a bit. Same effect, just way cheaper. Same could be done by staggering wheels. Just smaller goes to the rear.

MP4.2+6.0

Thanks for the reply.

And we know how well stagger on Audi's has been selling, especially once we explain in the posts the big ones are really supposed to go on the front and the small ones on the back. Somehow, it just doesn't quite have that BMW or recent Merc C class sport look Now since we already have the adjustable air ride height, if the Citroen salami car limo look ever comes back and folks stop shaking their heads about it too, just maybe it can be packaged all together ...

P.S. Forgot to say "boy racer" in here somewhere...

Mister Bally

Citroen, eh? Most of us have experience with hydraulic fluid from Audi power steering racks. Picture that on a not so durable suspension. And we complain about WABCO compressors and air struts....

MP4.2+6.0

Art in Engineering had a better idea much more recently. Say Art, what was that? Why, let's tie the diagonally opposite shocks together hydraulically to make it really flat and cool in the twistees, plus twice the chance to take the car down twice as badly if any of the four go out. Yeah, that's the ticket. C5 RS6. It was a nice theory anyway.

Great car and design effort as far as pushing the envelope 10 years ago, but the suspension idea didn't fly. And no more hydraulic fluid by when ever we move to any likely next one. Stopping at idle systems invariably mean the always on pump stuff almost all moves to electric, as did the D4 IIRC.