What fancy things is the steering wheel doing ? (2009)
06-08-2009, 05:18 AM
#11
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It sounds like you need a Lexus or some other Asian luxury vehicle, jersh
My advice to you is skip American and European vehicles all together. Or, perhaps you simply got a lemon. But that happens once in a while, no matter what brand you buy, lease, etcetera.
FWIW, Audi and Volvo are currently tied for being the best European brands in Dependability, durability, reliability, quality, satisfaction and service in Consumer Reports, beating BMW and Porsche (tied for second best European brands), Volkswagen (third best European brand) and Mercedes (fourth best European brand). All of these European brand are average or better than average in these areas in CR.
CR is the automotive benchmark. They are simply incomparable. JD P&A (JD Power & Associates) and SV (Strategic Vision) are only good when they agree with CR. Otherwise, JD P&A and SV are rubbish and should be ignored at all times. CR surveys 800,000+ to 1,000,000+ vehicle owners each year. JD P&A surveys 200,000-300,000 vehicle owners each year. SV surveys 100,000-200,000 vehicle owners each year.
Even JD Power & Associates has noticed a gigantic improvement in the areas mentioned above from Audi. I don't know about strategic Vision.
All of the above applies to 2005 and alter or 2006 and later Audis, depending on the model.
Your bad Audi experience (in North America, that is) is only typical of Audi models from the late 1980s and again from the late 1990s to 2004 or the late 1980s and again from the late 1990’s to 2005 and (again, depending on the model), jersh. This is solid fact.
FWIW, Audi and Volvo are currently tied for being the best European brands in Dependability, durability, reliability, quality, satisfaction and service in Consumer Reports, beating BMW and Porsche (tied for second best European brands), Volkswagen (third best European brand) and Mercedes (fourth best European brand). All of these European brand are average or better than average in these areas in CR.
CR is the automotive benchmark. They are simply incomparable. JD P&A (JD Power & Associates) and SV (Strategic Vision) are only good when they agree with CR. Otherwise, JD P&A and SV are rubbish and should be ignored at all times. CR surveys 800,000+ to 1,000,000+ vehicle owners each year. JD P&A surveys 200,000-300,000 vehicle owners each year. SV surveys 100,000-200,000 vehicle owners each year.
Even JD Power & Associates has noticed a gigantic improvement in the areas mentioned above from Audi. I don't know about strategic Vision.
All of the above applies to 2005 and alter or 2006 and later Audis, depending on the model.
Your bad Audi experience (in North America, that is) is only typical of Audi models from the late 1980s and again from the late 1990s to 2004 or the late 1980s and again from the late 1990’s to 2005 and (again, depending on the model), jersh. This is solid fact.
06-08-2009, 02:03 PM
#14
Cat Herder
So I have this problem wherein my steering wheel is jittering and shaking...
It is identical to the behavior that you would see if you had a tire balance problem.
However:
1) The tires are perfectly balanced - they have been repeatedly road-force-balanced, by my dealer, down to 10 lbs or less.
2) The problem is not consistent - sometimes it is there, and sometimes it isn't. Further, it sometimes shakes/jitters badly on a perfectly smooth road, and sometimes is perfect on a marginal road. I can find no pattern at all as to when the wheel will shudder back and forth terribly and when it will be just fine.
So I am wondering if perhaps this is a "software" problem of some kind ? If this were a real physical problem, like bad balance, or a bad rotor or ... a bad steering linkage, I would think the problem would be consistently there all the time.
So what is the steering system doing on a 2009 a8 ? Is it tightening and loosening the steering depending on speed and cornering, etc. ? If so, is it possible that my "system" is having problems and perhaps doing the wrong thing at times, thus leading to wheel jitter, etc. ?
I'm at the end of the line here ... the cars behavior is ridiculous on a daily basis, but nobody can figure out what the problem is, and the dealer refuses to do anything except make sure the tires are balanced. There are no "fault codes" so they refuse to do anything else.
Comments please ?
It is identical to the behavior that you would see if you had a tire balance problem.
However:
1) The tires are perfectly balanced - they have been repeatedly road-force-balanced, by my dealer, down to 10 lbs or less.
2) The problem is not consistent - sometimes it is there, and sometimes it isn't. Further, it sometimes shakes/jitters badly on a perfectly smooth road, and sometimes is perfect on a marginal road. I can find no pattern at all as to when the wheel will shudder back and forth terribly and when it will be just fine.
So I am wondering if perhaps this is a "software" problem of some kind ? If this were a real physical problem, like bad balance, or a bad rotor or ... a bad steering linkage, I would think the problem would be consistently there all the time.
So what is the steering system doing on a 2009 a8 ? Is it tightening and loosening the steering depending on speed and cornering, etc. ? If so, is it possible that my "system" is having problems and perhaps doing the wrong thing at times, thus leading to wheel jitter, etc. ?
I'm at the end of the line here ... the cars behavior is ridiculous on a daily basis, but nobody can figure out what the problem is, and the dealer refuses to do anything except make sure the tires are balanced. There are no "fault codes" so they refuse to do anything else.
Comments please ?
- See if the dealer will let you borrow an A8 (loaner or used) for a day and see if the other car does the same thing.
- Ask in your regional forum if another A8 is about, and see if you can road test it.
- Go visit another dealer that has an A8 for sale and go for a test drive.
- Ask in your regional forum for a solid indy shop that will take a look at it for you. It's a long shot, but A5/S5 cars have major control arm problems, as yet not officially acknowledged by Audi.
- does the rest of the car shake at all? any seat shaking at the same time?
06-08-2009, 08:19 PM
#15
AudiWorld Super User
Add to the list...
a few things I didn't see right off the bat:
--obviously rotate tires front to rear to see what happens.
--consider even if balanced maybe its a bad belt or something.
--consider wheel bearings and half shafts.
--Also check if lug bolts are too long (ask me how I know...) If the ends are slightly smashed, there's the clue. I found for example the 20" twin 7 spoke OEM "new style" RS 4 rims need a tiny bit shorter bolt than the 20" 9 spoke "old style" OEM rims due to very slight differences in the machining of the inner hub face of the wheel, at least with one type of spacers. Bet Audi doesn't even know that issue--it's maybe a millimeter or so of machining difference, but it can be critical given how far in the OEM bolts thread. Came up when I used H&R DRA spacers that otherwise use the OEM bolts as part of the set up, and it caused wheel vibrations when they bottomed between the spacer and the brake disk until I used one size shorter bolts.
--I don't like to do this, but an option when all else fails is put the car up in the air (SAFELY!!!) and power (spin) all four wheels up to driving speeds. You will likely see the obvious one with the issue by any unusual movement, vibration or shimmy. Now at least you know which corner of the car it is. Then taking off the wheel(s) and doing it again can isolate it down to tires and wheels vs. something in the drivetrain.
--obviously rotate tires front to rear to see what happens.
--consider even if balanced maybe its a bad belt or something.
--consider wheel bearings and half shafts.
--Also check if lug bolts are too long (ask me how I know...) If the ends are slightly smashed, there's the clue. I found for example the 20" twin 7 spoke OEM "new style" RS 4 rims need a tiny bit shorter bolt than the 20" 9 spoke "old style" OEM rims due to very slight differences in the machining of the inner hub face of the wheel, at least with one type of spacers. Bet Audi doesn't even know that issue--it's maybe a millimeter or so of machining difference, but it can be critical given how far in the OEM bolts thread. Came up when I used H&R DRA spacers that otherwise use the OEM bolts as part of the set up, and it caused wheel vibrations when they bottomed between the spacer and the brake disk until I used one size shorter bolts.
--I don't like to do this, but an option when all else fails is put the car up in the air (SAFELY!!!) and power (spin) all four wheels up to driving speeds. You will likely see the obvious one with the issue by any unusual movement, vibration or shimmy. Now at least you know which corner of the car it is. Then taking off the wheel(s) and doing it again can isolate it down to tires and wheels vs. something in the drivetrain.
12-13-2009, 06:48 AM
#16
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Did you find a solution to this behavior ? I have _exactly_ the same issue on a 2009 Audi TT Quattro 2.0T. The AofA dealership keeps telling me they don't see anything wrong with the car.
Nick
Nick
So I have this problem wherein my steering wheel is jittering and shaking...
It is identical to the behavior that you would see if you had a tire balance problem.
However:
1) The tires are perfectly balanced - they have been repeatedly road-force-balanced, by my dealer, down to 10 lbs or less.
2) The problem is not consistent - sometimes it is there, and sometimes it isn't. Further, it sometimes shakes/jitters badly on a perfectly smooth road, and sometimes is perfect on a marginal road. I can find no pattern at all as to when the wheel will shudder back and forth terribly and when it will be just fine.
So I am wondering if perhaps this is a "software" problem of some kind ? If this were a real physical problem, like bad balance, or a bad rotor or ... a bad steering linkage, I would think the problem would be consistently there all the time.
So what is the steering system doing on a 2009 a8 ? Is it tightening and loosening the steering depending on speed and cornering, etc. ? If so, is it possible that my "system" is having problems and perhaps doing the wrong thing at times, thus leading to wheel jitter, etc. ?
I'm at the end of the line here ... the cars behavior is ridiculous on a daily basis, but nobody can figure out what the problem is, and the dealer refuses to do anything except make sure the tires are balanced. There are no "fault codes" so they refuse to do anything else.
Comments please ?
It is identical to the behavior that you would see if you had a tire balance problem.
However:
1) The tires are perfectly balanced - they have been repeatedly road-force-balanced, by my dealer, down to 10 lbs or less.
2) The problem is not consistent - sometimes it is there, and sometimes it isn't. Further, it sometimes shakes/jitters badly on a perfectly smooth road, and sometimes is perfect on a marginal road. I can find no pattern at all as to when the wheel will shudder back and forth terribly and when it will be just fine.
So I am wondering if perhaps this is a "software" problem of some kind ? If this were a real physical problem, like bad balance, or a bad rotor or ... a bad steering linkage, I would think the problem would be consistently there all the time.
So what is the steering system doing on a 2009 a8 ? Is it tightening and loosening the steering depending on speed and cornering, etc. ? If so, is it possible that my "system" is having problems and perhaps doing the wrong thing at times, thus leading to wheel jitter, etc. ?
I'm at the end of the line here ... the cars behavior is ridiculous on a daily basis, but nobody can figure out what the problem is, and the dealer refuses to do anything except make sure the tires are balanced. There are no "fault codes" so they refuse to do anything else.
Comments please ?
12-13-2009, 03:56 PM
#17
AudiWorld Super User
Nope.
I don't have the tech package. I was really hoping that this was the explanation, so I could get on with my life here, but the reality is I have a brand new, $86k "flagship" car that can't drive down the highway without shaking the steering wheel.
I called the a8 advocate line. Whatever. All of this time is already wasted, so even if they magically fix it (I am pessimistic) I'm still screwed.
There is nothing special about Audi, and there is nothing special about the a8 - you can get a poorly assembled piece of crap just like you can with a Chrysler. Drive the car a day before you sign...
I don't have the tech package. I was really hoping that this was the explanation, so I could get on with my life here, but the reality is I have a brand new, $86k "flagship" car that can't drive down the highway without shaking the steering wheel.
I called the a8 advocate line. Whatever. All of this time is already wasted, so even if they magically fix it (I am pessimistic) I'm still screwed.
There is nothing special about Audi, and there is nothing special about the a8 - you can get a poorly assembled piece of crap just like you can with a Chrysler. Drive the car a day before you sign...
12-17-2009, 05:56 PM
#18
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Jersh,
Let me be of some help to you. I have a 2006 Audi A8L and it has been great so far no complaints. However, I also have a 2006 Lexus GS300 AWD sedan with 18 inch rims. This Lexus was fine until 15k miles when I had vibration in the steering wheel that would come and go mysteriously and was smooth on older cement roads and had some vibration on smooth new black tops and grooved roads. I had the dealership road force the hell out of the tires and rims and it checked out fine on the machine and still had this problem on the highways and the dealership never duplicated it because they where very lazy to drive it further on other highways and other roads. So, I got another set of tires which were better than the original tires (dunlops) and still had problems. These tires were bridgestones. I then went with Michelin tires and the vibration was minimized substantially. However I still felt it slightly in my steering wheel on certain roads. I then looked at all my rims especially the front 2. I found that one had a small curb rash which was not of big deal but I went ahead and replaced that rim and the vibration was gone after 10 thousand miles with this problem. It was a headache.
Thus, what I learnt is that the Lexus steering system was fine and the road force balancing was not always perfect solution. I would look at the tires you have. Then I would have the dealership take those tires off and mount the rims back on the machine nakedly and measure the run-out or width, diameter, etc of the rims to look for any small bents in them. Then I would rule the rims out. I notice that if you keep the tire on the rim while on the machine together it does not do a good job. Secondly I would get some decent tires other than Continental, Dunlops, or some Bridgestone tires and go with Michelins or Yokohamas. They are much better tires that have low road force numbers. There are many cases in which new cars are bought with same tires as other cars and would have good road force numbers on the machines but the tires themselves are made wrong or of poor quality and you just live with it and discard it and get some decent tires on tirerack and be happy with it.
Let me be of some help to you. I have a 2006 Audi A8L and it has been great so far no complaints. However, I also have a 2006 Lexus GS300 AWD sedan with 18 inch rims. This Lexus was fine until 15k miles when I had vibration in the steering wheel that would come and go mysteriously and was smooth on older cement roads and had some vibration on smooth new black tops and grooved roads. I had the dealership road force the hell out of the tires and rims and it checked out fine on the machine and still had this problem on the highways and the dealership never duplicated it because they where very lazy to drive it further on other highways and other roads. So, I got another set of tires which were better than the original tires (dunlops) and still had problems. These tires were bridgestones. I then went with Michelin tires and the vibration was minimized substantially. However I still felt it slightly in my steering wheel on certain roads. I then looked at all my rims especially the front 2. I found that one had a small curb rash which was not of big deal but I went ahead and replaced that rim and the vibration was gone after 10 thousand miles with this problem. It was a headache.
Thus, what I learnt is that the Lexus steering system was fine and the road force balancing was not always perfect solution. I would look at the tires you have. Then I would have the dealership take those tires off and mount the rims back on the machine nakedly and measure the run-out or width, diameter, etc of the rims to look for any small bents in them. Then I would rule the rims out. I notice that if you keep the tire on the rim while on the machine together it does not do a good job. Secondly I would get some decent tires other than Continental, Dunlops, or some Bridgestone tires and go with Michelins or Yokohamas. They are much better tires that have low road force numbers. There are many cases in which new cars are bought with same tires as other cars and would have good road force numbers on the machines but the tires themselves are made wrong or of poor quality and you just live with it and discard it and get some decent tires on tirerack and be happy with it.
12-17-2009, 06:04 PM
#19
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Let me be frank with you Jersh,
I am very surprise why you never bothered to get rid of the pirellis and try another brand of tires since June, But thats me. I have the A8L with 19 inch rims and I dislike Pirellis alot. Too much bad batches of tires and vibration and poor thread life. Also their thread patterns can be sensitive to road contour and texture. As I mentioned recently in my previous post, going with a better brand will make you happy. I doubt that your rims are bent unless you recall hitting a pothole, curb, ect or are having constant vibration on highways regardless of the road type (tarmac, cement, grooved, smooth, etc).
I am very surprise why you never bothered to get rid of the pirellis and try another brand of tires since June, But thats me. I have the A8L with 19 inch rims and I dislike Pirellis alot. Too much bad batches of tires and vibration and poor thread life. Also their thread patterns can be sensitive to road contour and texture. As I mentioned recently in my previous post, going with a better brand will make you happy. I doubt that your rims are bent unless you recall hitting a pothole, curb, ect or are having constant vibration on highways regardless of the road type (tarmac, cement, grooved, smooth, etc).
12-18-2009, 05:39 AM
#20
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Jersh,
Let me be of some help to you. I have a 2006 Audi A8L and it has been great so far no complaints. However, I also have a 2006 Lexus GS300 AWD sedan with 18 inch rims. This Lexus was fine until 15k miles when I had vibration in the steering wheel that would come and go mysteriously and was smooth on older cement roads and had some vibration on smooth new black tops and grooved roads. I had the dealership road force the hell out of the tires and rims and it checked out fine on the machine and still had this problem on the highways and the dealership never duplicated it because they where very lazy to drive it further on other highways and other roads. So, I got another set of tires which were better than the original tires (dunlops) and still had problems. These tires were bridgestones. I then went with Michelin tires and the vibration was minimized substantially. However I still felt it slightly in my steering wheel on certain roads. I then looked at all my rims especially the front 2. I found that one had a small curb rash which was not of big deal but I went ahead and replaced that rim and the vibration was gone after 10 thousand miles with this problem. It was a headache.
Thus, what I learnt is that the Lexus steering system was fine and the road force balancing was not always perfect solution. I would look at the tires you have. Then I would have the dealership take those tires off and mount the rims back on the machine nakedly and measure the run-out or width, diameter, etc of the rims to look for any small bents in them. Then I would rule the rims out. I notice that if you keep the tire on the rim while on the machine together it does not do a good job. Secondly I would get some decent tires other than Continental, Dunlops, or some Bridgestone tires and go with Michelins or Yokohamas. They are much better tires that have low road force numbers. There are many cases in which new cars are bought with same tires as other cars and would have good road force numbers on the machines but the tires themselves are made wrong or of poor quality and you just live with it and discard it and get some decent tires on tirerack and be happy with it.
Let me be of some help to you. I have a 2006 Audi A8L and it has been great so far no complaints. However, I also have a 2006 Lexus GS300 AWD sedan with 18 inch rims. This Lexus was fine until 15k miles when I had vibration in the steering wheel that would come and go mysteriously and was smooth on older cement roads and had some vibration on smooth new black tops and grooved roads. I had the dealership road force the hell out of the tires and rims and it checked out fine on the machine and still had this problem on the highways and the dealership never duplicated it because they where very lazy to drive it further on other highways and other roads. So, I got another set of tires which were better than the original tires (dunlops) and still had problems. These tires were bridgestones. I then went with Michelin tires and the vibration was minimized substantially. However I still felt it slightly in my steering wheel on certain roads. I then looked at all my rims especially the front 2. I found that one had a small curb rash which was not of big deal but I went ahead and replaced that rim and the vibration was gone after 10 thousand miles with this problem. It was a headache.
Thus, what I learnt is that the Lexus steering system was fine and the road force balancing was not always perfect solution. I would look at the tires you have. Then I would have the dealership take those tires off and mount the rims back on the machine nakedly and measure the run-out or width, diameter, etc of the rims to look for any small bents in them. Then I would rule the rims out. I notice that if you keep the tire on the rim while on the machine together it does not do a good job. Secondly I would get some decent tires other than Continental, Dunlops, or some Bridgestone tires and go with Michelins or Yokohamas. They are much better tires that have low road force numbers. There are many cases in which new cars are bought with same tires as other cars and would have good road force numbers on the machines but the tires themselves are made wrong or of poor quality and you just live with it and discard it and get some decent tires on tirerack and be happy with it.