2018 A8 To Be Unveiled in July
03-28-2017, 01:53 AM
#11
AudiWorld Member
03-28-2017, 03:01 AM
#12
AudiWorld Super User
I don't think Audi will abandon the idea of making cars that are fun to drive, even as they add more advanced driver aids. I'm looking forward to seeing what they come out with. As far as that chart goes, I have had each a Dodge, Chrysler, and Jeep, and none of them presented reliability issues. However, it is so hard to find a good dealer for them. I've had so many bad experiences at their dealerships, to include shoddy work, joyriding, and even outright sabotage. I still haven't had my airbag recall taken car of simply because I fear what the dealers near me may do next to my beloved hot rod.
03-28-2017, 08:39 AM
#13
AudiWorld Super User
To me autonomous is just one leg of the stool as it were, though the one perhaps Tesla has been eating their lunch on of late. Not just here but also their home turf. Big Audis have often sold new here to stereotype oldsters in FL--literally the #1 market for D bodies. Of course as board members that's not so much us as a stereotype, but rather those from whom we buy the vehicles after some depreciation clip. Including mine. But they also sell at the techno intersection, and where a lot of the lunch eating has taken place. And average price is really high, fully as high as loaded S8's when you see how they are equipped on average around here in Silicon Valley. I just call the Tesla S's Atherton Pontiacs, and the X another very high priced minivan. Literally 2-3x the relevant market competitive vehicles for similar function for the X. You can find the bucks here spent on whatever is trendy this nanosecond. For a while that was Maserati's for example, even more than D4's by a wide margin. GL'w were another fad. Tesla ate 'em all for lunch, even if I'm not so much a fan. Some day maybe for me, but they have worlds to go on various refinement, NVH, mediocrity in interiors, build quality and replacing third tier OEM suppliers (on a good day...) against the uber competition. With both strengths and weaknesses, this is the competitive reality Audi chases and tries to lead on (for first part of lifecycle) in the upper end but still mass marketplace where D5,Q8, etc. will place. Some sense that was part of reason for D5 delay--they had to assess it not just against the Old World of S's and 7's, but now New World too.
Other important legs meantime:
General styling outside. Bangle copycats are getting old themselves. My own even late model S8 looks a bit of a caricature if I'm honest.
Styling inside: Always an Audi strength, so expect more.
Motors #1: Expect more upping. 3.0T supercharging is at end of life, so expect the turbo now appearing in other 3.0T gas to be here too, probably in best state of tune given D4 market. SC is a good motor, but invariably you can't max mileage with any parasitic loss SC. I guess 4.0T transitions to whatever the Porsche led V8 gas team think is. But the 4.0T in current form is one great motor to start with so TBD on exactly what more they do. Some info would say its hardly more than trying to lower motor deck/overall height some. Very low volume W12 gets back into game with Bentley state of twin turbo tune--after almost a did-not start on D4 when 4.0T came out and sucked the hidden performance segment clean away.
Motors #2: Probably more on the mixed electric/blending (PHEV). Owning a Q5 hybrid that is decently thought out, the D4 hybrid embarrassment is sold only in Europe and China as a compliance type vehicle. Unlike Q5, essentially a afterthought hack, batteries dumped in middle of trunk just for starters let alone FWD and other kludges. Umvelt Euro enviro rules essentially will force PHEV's, at least if they want to drive them in leading cities--Berlin, Munich, Paris, likely soon London, etc. Given in Europe these are usually exec. chauffeured rides, almost no choice. If Porsche already has PHEV in both Cayenne and Panamera, almost a given to me it will be here too, acutely more so with massive egg on face TDI mess and repositioning. But beyond compliance, could get a lot more interesting if they start to do things you see on both supercars and also some pretty average mid market stuff--gas only powering two wheels with electric the other two in a closely coupled overall system. Not sure it will make even D5, but eventually. In turn loses weight, frees up packaging space and various other benefits. Net, on D5 I would expect something here, but tuned more to performance and not a hyper miler type concept.
Motors/divetrain #3: Maybe on the lightest weight D5's with smallest motors (not typically found in North America) some Quattro "Ultra" touted innovation, aka Haldex with lipstick. Fortunately apparently not up to the torque of the bigger Audi motors. But a bit of an unknown, since Porsche stuff (with them leading for V8 motor design...) is generally reactive clutch rather than full time like classic Quattro. MPG requirements drive this to a good extent, as opposed to necessarily highest performance result.
Virtual cockpit. A well duh given everything from recent A3, Q7, R8, Q5, A4...announcements. As Tesla shows, electronic gimmicks and big screen stuff sell. Expect more.
Car Play, Google Car, etc. (Apps). Another well duh, though the stereotype German control think (more below) has them continuing to wrestle with the Apples and Googles for who controls the "UI." UI on a car was always steering wheel, pedals, shifter, etc, but these days it's a lot more the electronics alongside. They will try to hold on until their proverbial cold dead fingers are pried off steering wheel and MMI **** so I'm not convinced what they do "Here" will really be in owners' interests. I don't want to see the current state of endless distracted drivers either, but the monetary incentives and what sells can vary a lot from what is safest or most user friendly or desired. Easy test: market in general wants Waze and one personal subscriber wireless bill, not Audi Navteq Car Nav with a traffic glue on and ongoing separate monthly charges on top of an expensive system. The glue on for which you pay a "revenue stream" to them, or rather some back room deal with Sirius. See which way they go and whether the App is allowed or not. Oops--answer already known IIRC from the ones with Car Play stacked on top of current MMI. Please buy our Sirius traffic glue on and no Waze enabled. Fearless forecast: substitute the Here map assets (more below) instead of Sirius, send revenue stream to Here (Audi+BMW+ Merc) and keep Waze out.
MMI rethink. It's understood/believed D5 will be where MMI gets a really big revision. Existing MMI is still fundamentally what was in D3 at 2003 launch--going on 15 years old. Only real change was a Google Earth graft on and some 360 cameras midlife. I expect it isn't just polishing the "Apple" or a bolt on like virtual cockpit essentially is, but much deeper. TBD on how they translate that, other than expect some Here revenue play with nice lipstick prettying up the ungainly camel's nose.
Updates and architecture: At intersection of autonomous and MMI/Nav, also figure a shift there. The Uber 3 of Germany paid literally billions for the Nokia (Navteq) mapping assets, so they need to do something with it. Now called "Here" as a company with a bunch of promotional spin around it. They are already signaling Google Earth and existing approach for telematics type stuff will be phased out. I suspect Achilles heels though will be the German stereotype penchant for centralized control and old monetization thinking--albeit pretty new and late in game for most car co's. Beyond this post, but if you want autonomous at the level of where the curb is exactly for parking and turns at islands and 100 other scenarios you don't do it with early millennium camera equipped mapmobiles and mainframes even if resolution is now better. Telsa figured that out too--crowdsource via vehicles themselves, over air updates AND two way communication, etc. Here frankly I expect a misfire. Centralized think married to software as a service/recurring revenue streams in their minds will leave them in Old World for next gen.--along with the other Uber 3 with the billions in sunk Navteq cost.
Other: 48V subsystems and a variety of other things they have shown and toyed with in recent memory. Water cooled alternators, power management system, fluid to air intercoolers, back fed coast down alternator charging (sort of microhybrid) and such are already implemented D3 or D4 examples of ongoing innvovations they do or incorporate that get lesser notice.
Other important legs meantime:
General styling outside. Bangle copycats are getting old themselves. My own even late model S8 looks a bit of a caricature if I'm honest.
Styling inside: Always an Audi strength, so expect more.
Motors #1: Expect more upping. 3.0T supercharging is at end of life, so expect the turbo now appearing in other 3.0T gas to be here too, probably in best state of tune given D4 market. SC is a good motor, but invariably you can't max mileage with any parasitic loss SC. I guess 4.0T transitions to whatever the Porsche led V8 gas team think is. But the 4.0T in current form is one great motor to start with so TBD on exactly what more they do. Some info would say its hardly more than trying to lower motor deck/overall height some. Very low volume W12 gets back into game with Bentley state of twin turbo tune--after almost a did-not start on D4 when 4.0T came out and sucked the hidden performance segment clean away.
Motors #2: Probably more on the mixed electric/blending (PHEV). Owning a Q5 hybrid that is decently thought out, the D4 hybrid embarrassment is sold only in Europe and China as a compliance type vehicle. Unlike Q5, essentially a afterthought hack, batteries dumped in middle of trunk just for starters let alone FWD and other kludges. Umvelt Euro enviro rules essentially will force PHEV's, at least if they want to drive them in leading cities--Berlin, Munich, Paris, likely soon London, etc. Given in Europe these are usually exec. chauffeured rides, almost no choice. If Porsche already has PHEV in both Cayenne and Panamera, almost a given to me it will be here too, acutely more so with massive egg on face TDI mess and repositioning. But beyond compliance, could get a lot more interesting if they start to do things you see on both supercars and also some pretty average mid market stuff--gas only powering two wheels with electric the other two in a closely coupled overall system. Not sure it will make even D5, but eventually. In turn loses weight, frees up packaging space and various other benefits. Net, on D5 I would expect something here, but tuned more to performance and not a hyper miler type concept.
Motors/divetrain #3: Maybe on the lightest weight D5's with smallest motors (not typically found in North America) some Quattro "Ultra" touted innovation, aka Haldex with lipstick. Fortunately apparently not up to the torque of the bigger Audi motors. But a bit of an unknown, since Porsche stuff (with them leading for V8 motor design...) is generally reactive clutch rather than full time like classic Quattro. MPG requirements drive this to a good extent, as opposed to necessarily highest performance result.
Virtual cockpit. A well duh given everything from recent A3, Q7, R8, Q5, A4...announcements. As Tesla shows, electronic gimmicks and big screen stuff sell. Expect more.
Car Play, Google Car, etc. (Apps). Another well duh, though the stereotype German control think (more below) has them continuing to wrestle with the Apples and Googles for who controls the "UI." UI on a car was always steering wheel, pedals, shifter, etc, but these days it's a lot more the electronics alongside. They will try to hold on until their proverbial cold dead fingers are pried off steering wheel and MMI **** so I'm not convinced what they do "Here" will really be in owners' interests. I don't want to see the current state of endless distracted drivers either, but the monetary incentives and what sells can vary a lot from what is safest or most user friendly or desired. Easy test: market in general wants Waze and one personal subscriber wireless bill, not Audi Navteq Car Nav with a traffic glue on and ongoing separate monthly charges on top of an expensive system. The glue on for which you pay a "revenue stream" to them, or rather some back room deal with Sirius. See which way they go and whether the App is allowed or not. Oops--answer already known IIRC from the ones with Car Play stacked on top of current MMI. Please buy our Sirius traffic glue on and no Waze enabled. Fearless forecast: substitute the Here map assets (more below) instead of Sirius, send revenue stream to Here (Audi+BMW+ Merc) and keep Waze out.
MMI rethink. It's understood/believed D5 will be where MMI gets a really big revision. Existing MMI is still fundamentally what was in D3 at 2003 launch--going on 15 years old. Only real change was a Google Earth graft on and some 360 cameras midlife. I expect it isn't just polishing the "Apple" or a bolt on like virtual cockpit essentially is, but much deeper. TBD on how they translate that, other than expect some Here revenue play with nice lipstick prettying up the ungainly camel's nose.
Updates and architecture: At intersection of autonomous and MMI/Nav, also figure a shift there. The Uber 3 of Germany paid literally billions for the Nokia (Navteq) mapping assets, so they need to do something with it. Now called "Here" as a company with a bunch of promotional spin around it. They are already signaling Google Earth and existing approach for telematics type stuff will be phased out. I suspect Achilles heels though will be the German stereotype penchant for centralized control and old monetization thinking--albeit pretty new and late in game for most car co's. Beyond this post, but if you want autonomous at the level of where the curb is exactly for parking and turns at islands and 100 other scenarios you don't do it with early millennium camera equipped mapmobiles and mainframes even if resolution is now better. Telsa figured that out too--crowdsource via vehicles themselves, over air updates AND two way communication, etc. Here frankly I expect a misfire. Centralized think married to software as a service/recurring revenue streams in their minds will leave them in Old World for next gen.--along with the other Uber 3 with the billions in sunk Navteq cost.
Other: 48V subsystems and a variety of other things they have shown and toyed with in recent memory. Water cooled alternators, power management system, fluid to air intercoolers, back fed coast down alternator charging (sort of microhybrid) and such are already implemented D3 or D4 examples of ongoing innvovations they do or incorporate that get lesser notice.
Last edited by MP4.2+6.0; 03-28-2017 at 10:40 AM.
03-28-2017, 10:39 AM
#15
03-28-2017, 10:47 AM
#16
AudiWorld Super User
...I think maybe we're going to back into another can't cut ACC back to std. cruise back and forth... Works great for me, but some others get frustrated.
Last edited by MP4.2+6.0; 03-28-2017 at 10:49 AM.
03-28-2017, 12:42 PM
#17
AudiWorld Junior Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
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Guess you don't drive much then because I also love driving my cars. However I drive a lot of highway also and the lane keep assist and active cruise control helps a ton. I know I should always be very attentive while driving but its hard when you've been driving for 5 hours already.
It's not like you can't turn the system off when you don't want to use it. When I had the genesis i had the lane keep assist on 100% of the time as I never felt the need to drive that car...however with this s8 plus I love driving the car without any of the nannies so i keep them off unless I'm on a long trip.
The new Panamera Turbo I expect to be the better driver's car. In long wheelbase form, I expect it will be nearly as good as the A8L for my family needs. It may not be the better 5 hour, ride in the car at the wheel, on the highway car, but frankly I don't do that and don't care how well it does that. Different strokes; someone whose primary concern is actively driving the car, often in a sporting manner, would "get it."
03-28-2017, 02:00 PM
#18
AudiWorld Super User
Oh, I get it. I just prefer to loaf about on a day to day basis. I have zero good driving roads around here in Maryland, never mind the traffic is always heavy when I need to drive. I'm from Grand Rapids area, so I know how many decent driving roads there are over there, and if I were still there, a Panamera Turbo would be a real contender for my next car. As it is, heading to LA area, the S8 still makes more sense. Everyone has different needs, and I'm sure I'm not the only one who's opinion has developed based on what best suits their area.
03-28-2017, 02:33 PM
#19
Guess we have a different definition of driving, not to be pejorative, but sounds like you'd rather ride than drive.
I believe you have a reply in my thread about the cruise, so I won't readdress the fact you can't turn off the adaptive cruise, or the many reasons why one would want to, but you can't, at all, and that makes cruise useless to me.
The new Panamera Turbo I expect to be the better driver's car. In long wheelbase form, I expect it will be nearly as good as the A8L for my family needs. It may not be the better 5 hour, ride in the car at the wheel, on the highway car, but frankly I don't do that and don't care how well it does that. Different strokes; someone whose primary concern is actively driving the car, often in a sporting manner, would "get it."
I believe you have a reply in my thread about the cruise, so I won't readdress the fact you can't turn off the adaptive cruise, or the many reasons why one would want to, but you can't, at all, and that makes cruise useless to me.
The new Panamera Turbo I expect to be the better driver's car. In long wheelbase form, I expect it will be nearly as good as the A8L for my family needs. It may not be the better 5 hour, ride in the car at the wheel, on the highway car, but frankly I don't do that and don't care how well it does that. Different strokes; someone whose primary concern is actively driving the car, often in a sporting manner, would "get it."
It's obvious the porsche panamera will be better drivers car...I've test driven a few of the current models now and felt good and even considered the rs7. The panamera is hands down the better drivers car, but since you like such drivers car why dont you get the 911 turbo? You see my point? It's pointless to say you are a drivers car kind of man and getting a damn 4500 lb 4 door hatchback.
But yes I see your point of why too want the panamera and if you aren't taking super long trips and you don't need some extra legroom for taller individuals or baby seats then yes that would be your better option. Also if you aren't taking those long trips then the drivers assistance package is not for you either.
The new panamera was what I really wanted to buy and the new one looks crazy good even in person but it is a tad bit small for me as was the rs7.
