Audis or VWs 4Life

A quick trip to Audi.de shows the base price for the A8 3.0TDI and 3.0 V6 gasser come in at 73.6k euros and 74.2k euro respectively where the 4.2 comes in at a whopping 91.1k euros. Will that pricing delta follow to the US? I am not really sure as it depends on what sort of options end up on one car versus the other. I have a feeling the V6S and the TDI cars come with a lot less standard equipment over there.

On the BMW side of the fence (in the US) the delta is actually 13k, of course I have no idea what options make it on one versus the other, I am sure the 13k delta is not all motor.

Equally loaded V6 versus V8 who knows where that will go but if they want to compete a shorty will have to come in around 66-67 and a long around 74-75. (both TDI and V6S) If options remain the same and we see that sort of delta it really makes very little no sense to get the 4.2 V8 unless you have two snails strapped to each cylinder bank and in that case its now called an S8.

The V6 gasser makes total sense, if they keep the gearing the same and still give you an 8spd gearbox you should see city jump to 20-21mpg or so and highway virtually unchanged maybe 29. (basing this off figures from audi.de and crunching the number compared to fuelecon.gov numbers) In so many ways the V8 isn't really relevant unless you want speeds north of 100 and the speed governor stops the fun at 130 anyway. I will be shocked if they keep the V8 for much longer after these two engines hit the options list. Maybe a year tops.

The TDI will be the best deal of the bunch if the numbers on audi.de are right (keep in mind euro city and highway cycles are very different then the epa ones) we might see 27-30 city and upwards of 40-43 on the highway. We see those numbers and the MB S Class BlueTec will have trouble making a case for MB or customers for that matter.

derfA8L

As long as the MB 550, BMW 7-series and the Porsche Panamera maintain a V8 in their respective line-ups, I'd be very surprised to see Audi delete the V8 off the A8 line. I think most customers looking at the "D" Segment competitively expect and want the V8 in this vehicle class---and are willing to pay for it, regardless of fuel economy. My guess is that the 3.0T V6 is important to Audi for the A8 line in so far as this engine, and its diesel companion, help Audi meet the upcoming CAFE thresholds.

xradman

Whatever the pricing, it's got to be above that of comparably equipped A7 or they'll cannibalize sales from that car. I don't see the V6 A8s with Premium package selling for much less than $80K given that A7 Prestige with few options are $70K. I seriously doubt that MSRP, even for stripped A8 V6, will be less than $70K.

xradman

On Audi.de, the pricing for base models are as follows:

A6 3.0 TFSI Quattro: 51,600 Euro
A6 3.0 TDI/8-Speed Quattro: 55,900 Euro

A7 3.0 TFSI Quattro: 58,600 Euro (7,000 premium above A6)
A7 3.0 TDI/8-Speed Quattro: 61,800 Euro (5,900 premium above A6)

A8 3.0 TFSI Quattro: 74,200 Euro (15,600 premium above A7)
A8 3.0 TDI Quattro: 73,600 Euro (11,800 premium above A7)
A8 4.2 TFSI Quattro: 91,100 Euro (16,900 premium above A8 3.0 TFSI)

A8L 3.0 TFSI Quattro: 81,900 Euro (23,300 premium above A7)
A8L 3.0 TDI Quattro: 81,300 Euro (19,500 premium above A7)
A8L 4.2 TFSI Quattro: 96,100 Euro (14,200 premium above A8 3.0 TFSI)

Let's compare that to US MSRP


A6 3.0 TFSI Quattro Premium: $49,900
A6 3.0 TFSI Quattro Prestige: $56,780

A7 3.0 TFSI Quattro Premium: $59,250 (9,350 premium above A6)
A7 3.0 TFSI Quattro Prestige: $65,580 (8,800 premium above A6)

A8 4.2 TFSI Quattro: $78,750 (19,500 premium above A7 Premium and 13,170 premium above A7 Prestige)

A8L 4.2 TFSI Quattro: $84,700 (25,450 premium above A7 Premium, 19,120 premium above A7 Prestige and 5950 premium above A8)

Based on these numbers, I think A8 3.0 will MSRP just above $70K. We here in the US are also getting a great deal on the A8 unless the German versions come fully loaded.

jetinder

German spec cars are usually not that well loaded (ever seen cloth on an A8 seat ???!! It's there in Germany!).

I realise economy/emissions are the big thing on the planet. But it would have been nice if they brought out the twin turbo diesel in the US. You can then compare the 3.0T petrol/diesel both with about 313 PS.

I wonder which one would sell more.

Here, they have finally announce the 204 hp 3.0 TDi front wheel drive A8 (a lot of limo owners like them ).

There's quite a model range out there now.

Anyone heard whether the 360 degree camera option will be available in the non-S8 cars for MY2013?

Jet

jakematic

Honestly the rumors and my own gut feeling about this is why I'm pushing up the move to D4.

It makes no difference to me what the EU thinks is good for us, I want a big V8.
And as you said I'm willing to pay and it doesn't bother me if it gets 3mpg.

I am reminded of lightbulbs, but I digress, and don't want to go off on a rant.

THanks for the information.

BigGrasshopper

Remember that the BMW 740 has a twin-turbo 6 cylinder engine, and is actually very well reviewed, offering good acceleration and torque. Whereas the 750 has abysmal fuel consumption, the 740 is much better, and at a significant cost savings.

As someone else wrote, I don't think turbo 6 in the A8 would dilute the brand's segment very much at all. In the U.S., if you could get the A8 fully optioned in the high $70k or low $80k, that would a appeal to a much broader base of customer, especially in terms of leasing affordability.

I suspect that a 6 cylinder A8 would not cannibalize A7 sales very much. Anecdotally, from talking to 2 people who've purchased the A7, the A8 was not a consideration for them due to lifestyle - price was never the issue.

derfA8L

I suppose I have to respond to the fist two points :^)

#1-Well reviewed or not, I see comparatively few 740 series Bimmers compared to the far larger number of 750s in my area (NYC and LI). And BTW, the D4's 4.2 V8 engine mated to the 8-speed tiptronic is comparatively very good when it comes to fuel economy---certainly not far off most of the MPG stats I've seen quoted on the A7 forum. As far as performance goes, the 4.2 V8 might not be as torquey as the supercharged 3.0T, but it's still darn quick. I still believe most prospective D-segment customers will probably go with the 4.2 V8, similar to the ratio seen for the 7-series. Without a V8 in the A8, I suspect BMW and Mercedes would see a good number of conquest sales going to their V8 equipped D-segment models. Would these losses be equally off-set by new customers going for the V6 equipped A8? I imagine a question AoA doesn't care to risk in the short term (In the next 5 years).

#2-Agreed, the addition of the supercharged V6 and V6 deisel will add some customers to the A8 mix. However, I doubt that a fully loaded A8 or A8L with the V6 will come in as low a price point as some expect---surely the deisel won't. I suspect that the price differential will max out lower, perhaps at about $10 to $12K when you add back the equipment that will likely be decontented in the 3.0T V6 version---so, IMO, a 4.2 A8L with an MSRP of approximately $101K (like my car) could translate to a V6 price that approaches or exceeds $90K with comparable options. Even at invoice, my pricing model would have you at roughly $85K to $87K, which is higher than the high $70K to low $80K range. At that point the extra $10K for the V8 (and perhaps not even that much) wouldn't be that big a factor to keep a good many buyers from "upgrading" to the V8.

We'll find out soon enough. Dealers will be receiving product and ordering ordering info for the 2013 MY 3.0T A8/A8L sometime next month---And with customer deliveries for the supercharged V6 version expected to begin by late Spring, we'll soon be able to get a read on how V6 versus V8 sales go.

gb4.2

Derf, my order for the 2012 A8L will officially go into the Audi queue on Tuesday. Based on your above timeframe for the 2013 MY pricing and vehicle availability (stateside, I assume), I might want to pull it and wait to see what the pricing looks like for the A8L with the 3.0 TFSI engine. I've driven the new A6 and the A7 and found this engine/drivetrain to be wonderful and could only imagine that it would function very well in the D4 platform. I don't really need the V-8, especially if your price estimate is accurate. The vehicle I'm ordering is well-optioned with MSRP of over $100K (like yours). If I could save $8-10K by going to the 3.0 TFSI engine, I think I'd do it. Your thoughts?

derfA8L

The ordering and customer delivery timeframes I mentioned are from the AoA communication to dealer's that was released this past Monday. If you were interested in the diesel, that engine won't be mated to the A8 until late 2012, as per the same dealer communique.

Yup, if you think the 3.0T better suits your needs, then your dealer will have product info and ordering details sometime in February---but possibly not pricing data until closer to launch; you'll have to check on that. I'd be curious to see when dealer demo units are slated to make it over here in North America. I'd want to test drive that engine in the A8 before making any decision; no matter how well the supercharged V6 carries itself in the A6 and A7, it's driving and performance characteristics in the larger A8 are still unknown quantities---even with the added hp ponies from the S4 version of this engine. Also consider this: no matter how good the V6 feels in the A6/A7, we don't really know how much better those vehicles would feel and perform in a V8 version. In other words, especially for A7 customers, would there be enough difference for them to have skipped over the V6 and opted for the V8?

The other thing we haven't discussed is future trade-in/resale valuation compared to the V8. I haven't looked at how the 7-series and Panamera V6ers compare to V8s in this regard---is there enough of a pre-owned market for the smaller engine versus the V8? Perhaps it's too early in the game to get a handle on this to project onto the A8, but it is something to think about if you're going to buy the car. If you plan on leasing, then not a major concern.