Spark plug fouling normal?
12-23-2017, 06:17 AM
#11
Audiworld Junior Member
Thread Starter
They need to figure WHY those plugs in particular are fouling. Cool problem or is it a piston ring issue? A leakdown test and compression test should be performed along with PCV diagnostic. Hopefully you are under CPO in case this is a serious issue. Please let us all know what it all comes down to. I have a 2014 A7 4,0 with 16,800 miles on it, all great so far
12-24-2017, 12:37 PM
#13
AudiWorld Super User
I would still be looking closely at the PCV/fine oil separation and oil consumption as mentioned before. And the loose spark plug from earlier in thread was definitely lame--if true that is. It happens; if so that sounds like a factory screw up. Typically just needs tightening and maybe some thread chasing/cleaning though.
Last edited by MP4.2+6.0; 12-24-2017 at 12:40 PM.
12-25-2017, 06:15 AM
#14
Audiworld Junior Member
Thread Starter
I wouldn't be so harsh on the gas brand stuff BTW. The service guy didn't get to more important bigger picture, but what he may have been flagging in a sloppy description was carbon fouling. Any FSI motor is vulnerable to it. I think personally think the design of the PCV (and or oil separation) system has more to do with fouling--and Audi has realized to use the fine oil separator. But, cheap gas (meaning inadequate detergent pack in particular) does probably correlate with in cylinder and post cylinder stuff to an extent, as well as EGR ports. Would need to actually see a 4.0T head to know the specific design.
I would still be looking closely at the PCV/fine oil separation and oil consumption as mentioned before. And the loose spark plug from earlier in thread was definitely lame--if true that is. It happens; if so that sounds like a factory screw up. Typically just needs tightening and maybe some thread chasing/cleaning though.
I would still be looking closely at the PCV/fine oil separation and oil consumption as mentioned before. And the loose spark plug from earlier in thread was definitely lame--if true that is. It happens; if so that sounds like a factory screw up. Typically just needs tightening and maybe some thread chasing/cleaning though.
Thanks again for your comments and Merry Christmas!
12-25-2017, 06:50 AM
#15
AudiWorld Member
Bears investigation
I think MP4.2*6.0 has raised some valid technical points as always. I would definitely push the dealer for a cylinder leakdown test. It will definitely determine if it's valve or piston ring related. I for one would be diplomatic and try very hard to resolve this at the dealership level. Talk to the decision maker at the dealership, you aren't looking to assign blame, you just want the car fixed! You could ask that person if they want it as their own daily driver, tell them you would like to trade it in!
If it's a warranty claim Audi pays the damn bill, NOT the dealer. It is strange they wouldn't investigate this thoroughly and promptly. Please keep us ALL informed, maybe it's time to post the dealers name and the individuals you talk with???? Then anyone doing an internet search will be cued into their less than stellar customer relationships!
If it's a warranty claim Audi pays the damn bill, NOT the dealer. It is strange they wouldn't investigate this thoroughly and promptly. Please keep us ALL informed, maybe it's time to post the dealers name and the individuals you talk with???? Then anyone doing an internet search will be cued into their less than stellar customer relationships!
12-25-2017, 08:34 AM
#16
I tend to buy my cars from the same salesman year after year. I've found that sitting down with your salesman and telling him your problem is also an effective method to get action. He has a big stake in you being happy and returning to buy another car from him.
12-25-2017, 09:42 AM
#17
AudiWorld Super User
FWIW, first generation FSI (DI) Mini I had, it would show signs of fouling inside of 30K. Crap design where they didn't think through modifying the old PCV system to deal with direct injection realities. Seafoam spray was the standard easy treatment; first sign was valve rattle for me. In brief, often the reason you see fouling on these--especially the early crap designs like that Mini (and a lot of others)--is failure to have the valves washed with fuel like in a port motor. But, call that more a symptom than real issue. Underlying specific Issue is oil going through there to start with, really exacerbated at start up (hence my earlier question) when you get a mess of oil and water vapor mixing from the PCV vapor feed. In turn why on some of the "kid" enthusiast cars you find a lot more (as in, any compared to a D4) talk about oil "catch cans."
Audi design seems a lot better. But don't think either the service bays aren't in fact sort of full of various models. Ground zero for FSI fouling on Audi motors seems to be the now dead and buried prior normally aspirated 3.2T. Those are by and large post warranty now. I tell all friends to avoid them when it comes up. 2.0T pre 2013 is under service action for oil burning, the most severe treatment for which is a refitting of complete new pistons and rings. My instinct from D3 board for many years now is the D3 S8 V10 found there and in C6 S6 is also vulnerable. Dealers also tend to see most cars only under warranty, so they don't deal a lot with post 50 or 70K miles. D3's and C6's already have faded for them knowledge wise.
Being more optimistic and focusing on more probable scenarios, I would still be thinking more simple things like the PCV/oll separation function, especially since it is an area we know on the board is breaking on 4.0T's. But, trying to be honest and constructive, dealer service people tend to act on known specific issues they can fix, or at least take to them more easily. Yes, Audi pays as some other members are saying, but only if it is reimbursable. With diesel debacle, Audi has cracked down yet further on any borderline service scenarios. Thus what they would think of as exploratory let alone fishing expeditions is not something they cover these days, and local dealers need regional or national approval. I've seen it w/ our 2013 Q5 Hybrid already, where anything in the multi thousand dollar category needed Audi sign off, even if clearly broken at the get go--as in, car gets towed in and won't even start, or Nav system won't turn on at all and I report what sounded like a hard drive crash (which it was). In some cases these was preceded by troubleshooting all the way back to Germany before forklift replacing a few big bucks things.
On your end, I would strongly urge really getting to bottom of oil consumption rate before another service visit. Like specifically, one bar gradient per x miles, and/or one quart added to bring it up to top bar again after ____ miles when it started at that bar. That gives them actionable data, which is what they work with a lot better. To set boundaries, if you tell them 1 quart per 3-5,000 miles, it will go nowhere, if you tell them a quart per 500 miles something definitive will get fixed, ultimately up to a forklift motor replace. The whole middle range is the argument area. They run their own consumption testing too, so your reported data is just a starting point they then try to validate. The fouling is ultimately probably oil related, but yes could be some gas too. Take the gas "excuse" away from them frankly. Honestly, I put in lower octane gas myself before I put in lower tier stuff.
Audi design seems a lot better. But don't think either the service bays aren't in fact sort of full of various models. Ground zero for FSI fouling on Audi motors seems to be the now dead and buried prior normally aspirated 3.2T. Those are by and large post warranty now. I tell all friends to avoid them when it comes up. 2.0T pre 2013 is under service action for oil burning, the most severe treatment for which is a refitting of complete new pistons and rings. My instinct from D3 board for many years now is the D3 S8 V10 found there and in C6 S6 is also vulnerable. Dealers also tend to see most cars only under warranty, so they don't deal a lot with post 50 or 70K miles. D3's and C6's already have faded for them knowledge wise.
Being more optimistic and focusing on more probable scenarios, I would still be thinking more simple things like the PCV/oll separation function, especially since it is an area we know on the board is breaking on 4.0T's. But, trying to be honest and constructive, dealer service people tend to act on known specific issues they can fix, or at least take to them more easily. Yes, Audi pays as some other members are saying, but only if it is reimbursable. With diesel debacle, Audi has cracked down yet further on any borderline service scenarios. Thus what they would think of as exploratory let alone fishing expeditions is not something they cover these days, and local dealers need regional or national approval. I've seen it w/ our 2013 Q5 Hybrid already, where anything in the multi thousand dollar category needed Audi sign off, even if clearly broken at the get go--as in, car gets towed in and won't even start, or Nav system won't turn on at all and I report what sounded like a hard drive crash (which it was). In some cases these was preceded by troubleshooting all the way back to Germany before forklift replacing a few big bucks things.
On your end, I would strongly urge really getting to bottom of oil consumption rate before another service visit. Like specifically, one bar gradient per x miles, and/or one quart added to bring it up to top bar again after ____ miles when it started at that bar. That gives them actionable data, which is what they work with a lot better. To set boundaries, if you tell them 1 quart per 3-5,000 miles, it will go nowhere, if you tell them a quart per 500 miles something definitive will get fixed, ultimately up to a forklift motor replace. The whole middle range is the argument area. They run their own consumption testing too, so your reported data is just a starting point they then try to validate. The fouling is ultimately probably oil related, but yes could be some gas too. Take the gas "excuse" away from them frankly. Honestly, I put in lower octane gas myself before I put in lower tier stuff.
Last edited by MP4.2+6.0; 12-25-2017 at 09:45 AM.
12-25-2017, 01:09 PM
#18
Audiworld Junior Member
Thread Starter
FWIW, first generation FSI (DI) Mini I had, it would show signs of fouling inside of 30K. Crap design where they didn't think through modifying the old PCV system to deal with direct injection realities. Seafoam spray was the standard easy treatment; first sign was valve rattle for me. In brief, often the reason you see fouling on these--especially the early crap designs like that Mini (and a lot of others)--is failure to have the valves washed with fuel like in a port motor. But, call that more a symptom than real issue. Underlying specific Issue is oil going through there to start with, really exacerbated at start up (hence my earlier question) when you get a mess of oil and water vapor mixing from the PCV vapor feed. In turn why on some of the "kid" enthusiast cars you find a lot more (as in, any compared to a D4) talk about oil "catch cans."
Audi design seems a lot better. But don't think either the service bays aren't in fact sort of full of various models. Ground zero for FSI fouling on Audi motors seems to be the now dead and buried prior normally aspirated 3.2T. Those are by and large post warranty now. I tell all friends to avoid them when it comes up. 2.0T pre 2013 is under service action for oil burning, the most severe treatment for which is a refitting of complete new pistons and rings. My instinct from D3 board for many years now is the D3 S8 V10 found there and in C6 S6 is also vulnerable. Dealers also tend to see most cars only under warranty, so they don't deal a lot with post 50 or 70K miles. D3's and C6's already have faded for them knowledge wise.
Being more optimistic and focusing on more probable scenarios, I would still be thinking more simple things like the PCV/oll separation function, especially since it is an area we know on the board is breaking on 4.0T's. But, trying to be honest and constructive, dealer service people tend to act on known specific issues they can fix, or at least take to them more easily. Yes, Audi pays as some other members are saying, but only if it is reimbursable. With diesel debacle, Audi has cracked down yet further on any borderline service scenarios. Thus what they would think of as exploratory let alone fishing expeditions is not something they cover these days, and local dealers need regional or national approval. I've seen it w/ our 2013 Q5 Hybrid already, where anything in the multi thousand dollar category needed Audi sign off, even if clearly broken at the get go--as in, car gets towed in and won't even start, or Nav system won't turn on at all and I report what sounded like a hard drive crash (which it was). In some cases these was preceded by troubleshooting all the way back to Germany before forklift replacing a few big bucks things.
On your end, I would strongly urge really getting to bottom of oil consumption rate before another service visit. Like specifically, one bar gradient per x miles, and/or one quart added to bring it up to top bar again after ____ miles when it started at that bar. That gives them actionable data, which is what they work with a lot better. To set boundaries, if you tell them 1 quart per 3-5,000 miles, it will go nowhere, if you tell them a quart per 500 miles something definitive will get fixed, ultimately up to a forklift motor replace. The whole middle range is the argument area. They run their own consumption testing too, so your reported data is just a starting point they then try to validate. The fouling is ultimately probably oil related, but yes could be some gas too. Take the gas "excuse" away from them frankly. Honestly, I put in lower octane gas myself before I put in lower tier stuff.
Audi design seems a lot better. But don't think either the service bays aren't in fact sort of full of various models. Ground zero for FSI fouling on Audi motors seems to be the now dead and buried prior normally aspirated 3.2T. Those are by and large post warranty now. I tell all friends to avoid them when it comes up. 2.0T pre 2013 is under service action for oil burning, the most severe treatment for which is a refitting of complete new pistons and rings. My instinct from D3 board for many years now is the D3 S8 V10 found there and in C6 S6 is also vulnerable. Dealers also tend to see most cars only under warranty, so they don't deal a lot with post 50 or 70K miles. D3's and C6's already have faded for them knowledge wise.
Being more optimistic and focusing on more probable scenarios, I would still be thinking more simple things like the PCV/oll separation function, especially since it is an area we know on the board is breaking on 4.0T's. But, trying to be honest and constructive, dealer service people tend to act on known specific issues they can fix, or at least take to them more easily. Yes, Audi pays as some other members are saying, but only if it is reimbursable. With diesel debacle, Audi has cracked down yet further on any borderline service scenarios. Thus what they would think of as exploratory let alone fishing expeditions is not something they cover these days, and local dealers need regional or national approval. I've seen it w/ our 2013 Q5 Hybrid already, where anything in the multi thousand dollar category needed Audi sign off, even if clearly broken at the get go--as in, car gets towed in and won't even start, or Nav system won't turn on at all and I report what sounded like a hard drive crash (which it was). In some cases these was preceded by troubleshooting all the way back to Germany before forklift replacing a few big bucks things.
On your end, I would strongly urge really getting to bottom of oil consumption rate before another service visit. Like specifically, one bar gradient per x miles, and/or one quart added to bring it up to top bar again after ____ miles when it started at that bar. That gives them actionable data, which is what they work with a lot better. To set boundaries, if you tell them 1 quart per 3-5,000 miles, it will go nowhere, if you tell them a quart per 500 miles something definitive will get fixed, ultimately up to a forklift motor replace. The whole middle range is the argument area. They run their own consumption testing too, so your reported data is just a starting point they then try to validate. The fouling is ultimately probably oil related, but yes could be some gas too. Take the gas "excuse" away from them frankly. Honestly, I put in lower octane gas myself before I put in lower tier stuff.
