Victoryroad

Definitely agree. It is about enjoying our rides. They make little financial sense.

CanAm Eight

*I have followed this thread with interest. *Sounds like I have more experience with high end vehicle depreciation than most, *I am just a bit on the wrong side of 70.

I have always been self employed or had my own company. I run those enterprises on hardline P&L and cash flow principals. However, starting with a 1969 Porsche 911s I have indulged myself with high end German road machines. I haven't, and don't fret at depreciation and ownership expense. It is a personal indulgence I can afford, and have enjoyed every minute of it.*

Kurt

Victoryroad

No way around it, Audi's are expensive to own or lease, but subjectively are satisfying in most aspects. Not sure if there is much depreciation difference relative to the 7 Series or the S Class counterparts. I am grappling with the prospect of getting the sport package on the 4 liter turbo in next D4, if that engine is used, vs. the D4 S8 vs. the Pan 4S. I do not know how the Pan 4S has done in the aftermarket vs say a recent D3 S8, but guess that there is not all that much difference in depreciation.

derfA8L

I know exactly how AoA will interpret your disappointment in their A8 pricing model---To be blunt, they really don't care. For years the A8 had been priced substantially lower than BMW's 7 series and Merc's S500/550 platform. Someone who attended the D4 dealer pre-launch in 2010 told me that the AoA marketing brass flatly stated that Audi AG was tired of having to "under-value" the A8 in the U.S market, and the platform's pricing would be positioned to bring up revenue per unit and be reflective of their confidence in the new D4. So AoA was under pressure from Audi AG to up the A8's price position to be more in line with the competition; actually to fit between BMW and MB. This all started back in 2007 when they stopped subventing their leaseses and forced residual values down significantly---they were losing their shirts on lease returns with considerably higher residual values compared with the cars' actual market value at auction. That is the reason why Audi leases have been less competitive versus competing marques since Fall 2007; especially compared with BMW, who has continued to liberally subvent their leases. Actually, the D4/A8 lease program is better than it had been---partially a result of AoA's ability to better stabalize the used market value of their D-segment cars over the last few years, and keep them closer to how BMW and MB's luxury platforms perform. When I turned in my $82K 39-month old 2008 A8L last March, the residual value left on the lease was about $30K, but the actual market value was in the neighborhood of between $44K and $48K---so even at auction discount AoA made money on the car, as did the dealer that bought and re-sold the car. At the low end ($44K), that works out to 54% of the original negotiated price of the car---a value loss of 46% after 39-months; about what you're complaining about now. I probably should have bought that car at lease-end and sold it myself, but that's not my thing.

So in the end, with the D4 currently breaking Audi's D-segment U.S. sales records each month going back to the launch of the 2004 D3(it's a fact---I checked), they're pricing strategy is playing out quite well and complaints about the D4's pricing is likely falling on deaf ears. The bottom line is that AoA has positioned the D4 to attract a higher level of conquest sales from MB and BMW, while willing to sacrifice some (acceptable) level of past/current D3 A8 owners due to pricing. And while Audi AG still wants to increase sales/revenue in the U.S. market, their ROW success, especially in China, has placed the U.S. market into a position of less importance in the overall scheme.

And thanks, I am really having a great time with the new A8, as is, I'm sure, everyone else here who has one . The improvements they've made compared with the prior D3 model IMO are worth the increase in price---although I have to admit that the (comparatively) improved D4 lease program allowed me to spec much more car for virtually the same monthly expense I had with my previous 2008 D3 lease. :^)

jetinder

Nicely stated (from a 39 year youngling).... now, back to working 23 hours a day to pay for all these nice toys.

BigGrasshopper

The resale values are simply a matter of supply and demand, and I think, in the A8s case, the lower price bears little relation to the comparative quality for the vehicle.

At a party a couple of months ago I was talking to a guy from Munich who is doing his tour of duty for Audi here in the U.S. in their global marketing division.

He explained that the perception of 'luxury' and 'quality' that the A8 has in North America is significantly lower than that which the Europeans have of Audi and the A8 in particular.

Audi's elevated pricing point for the D4 A8 is part of their multi-pronged attempt to elevate the standing of the A8 in the U.S. market. Since Audi finally has a product that is superior (even by a slim margin in the opinion of some), then it is appropriate to price it above the competition.

As to purchasing decisions - I think for any auto enthusiast, the emotional part of the brain competes with the logical part when making a purchase. Am I spending more on this car than I want to? Yes, absolutely. Do I enjoy every second driving the A8? Absolutely. I could be in a new BMW 5-series, which is a terrific car (and I owned the prior model), and be getting a fantastic value, especially since it is basically a 9/10ths 7-series. But the driving and luxury experience is no comparison (the 7-Series is even nicer still, but still didn't float my boat). So for the few extra thousand dollars a year (over any other less expensive auto I would have bought anyway), the justification exists for me.

If value considerations outweigh emotional, then I would highly recommend a slightly used 1 or 2 year old BMW, as the depreciation has really kicked in.

tibookx

because I've sat and driven both the 740i and the A8. And I'm sorry... if you're already spending this kind of money, spend it and get the product that has actual quality. I've never been so appalled in my life at the interior plastic cheapness of the current 7 series. It feels like an inferior product, and every test has rated the current 7 series below the Jaguar XJ (which is ungodly awful, unless you like disco and have no taste) -- I understand the need for something new every few years, and if that's truly you, dump your $ down the drain and just lease a 740i. But if you want something that will last you a bit longer, and you will appreciate (as you laugh passing the BMWs and the Jaguars in the rain with ease) the A8 in the long run. Drool on friends.

PS -- Or just go get a super loaded A6... $72K sticker and it has more options than the BMW 7 can conceive of

Mister Bally

Just keep in mind that Steve Jobs did not even make it to 60 and he was worth Billions. Also, for those who are familiar with the gaming (gambling) industry; Steve Wynn is up there as well. His eyesight is basically sililar to holding a dinner plate five inches in front of your nose. No straight ahead vision; only around the edges of the circle. Think about it, he can't see nor drive an A8, Ferrari or even a Fiat 500.

Point is money means little. If you have it, enjoy it. While you are able. For a less fortunate in the $$ department person such as myself; I say buy an A8 2-3 years old. Still reliable and fun for a more reasonable price of admission.

jprescott

Not clear who you are making fun of but there is a difference between owning and test driving. I had an 06' A8L for two years followed by an 07' S550 and just traded that in for an 11' 740Li. They are all great cars. Once in them for a few months they all have their ups and downs. I have never been "appalled" about a car but some of this is really subjective. I personally enjoy tech, lux and design. A loaded A6(which I did test drive) is not even comparable to a 7 series, A8 or S in any way. Yes it has google etc. but this is not what makes the car a car. So I am not defending my position, just sayin' it's in the eye of the beholder. BTW I would feel more comfortable in a grampa car (I'm 47) like an S550 or an LS450 than in any Jag. Too Joan Collins for me

GR8-LIFE

I agree. I am certainly not able to burn money like many but I'm a good bit over 6 figures with no mortgage or any car payments so I could even custom order a 2012 if I wanted to. But after looking at the cars.com A8 2011 pre-owns, I am going to simply wait another year

Many 2011 A8's with 4K miles with decent options are now selling for low 70's and we all know that asking price is always at the highest ceiling point so very high 60's right now would not surprise me. One particular startling find was an IBIS White A8, fully loaded 2011 ($110K sticker) selling for $89K, or atleast thats what they were asking. It had 6700 miles on it. Although Blackbook pricing isnt out yet on 2011's, I guarantee you the required ceiling of dealers didnt allow much more than $80K to the original owner on that car and thats if he was lucky. Even if he bought that car at Invoice, its still $20K out the window after just 6K miles. Thats painfull to see and its not even my money!


If you are going to buy new, atleast aim for Invoice. My last 3 cars were new and all were invoice or below. 2 of them were even ordered. For example My 2011 S4 was ordered in Nov for $2500 below invoice.

In 30-60 days, ordering a 2012 A8 for invoice or even sub invoice objective will become easier. Finding a 2011 in stock right now will easily go for well under if you have all the options you want and like the colors