Torque450

To be honest, I'm not that bothered about the difference in tech standard between the cars, because the driving experience matters more to me.
When I looked at the S Class, I thought the tech displays actually looked 'too much'.

On the driving, my A8 doesn't have rear wheel steer, but in dynamic mode I still find it very taught and predictable /enjoyable because it manages it's weight very well. I've not driven similar model 2020/21+ S Class, but I suspect the ride is a bit better but the handling is looser ? Any experiences ?

subterFUSE

I have the B&O Advanced. I am also a former car audio sound quality competitor with a national championship win, and I have tuned multiple cars that won national championships. I also own a car audio speaker company.

I am friends with the guy who is responsible for tuning the ML system in the Lexus LS500. You are correct that the Lexus ML is the best of the factory audio systems available. I would rank the others differently.


For the German cars, I found that both the Burmester (Mercedes S) and the B&W (F90 M5) were better than the B&O Advanced that is in my S8. None of them are great, but I found the B&O the most disappointing.

Mercedes has the best speaker locations of the bunch. They are putting their midbass drivers in the firewall under the dash, which is an excellent location.
BMW is still using the under seat midbass which is a lousy location. I would say that the stereo imaging for BMW is the worst of the bunch, but the overall tonality was good.
Mercedes and BMW have more DSP options available for the user to adjust, like multiband EQ. B&O only has basic Treble, Mid, Bass, and Sub tone controls. Not surprisingly, it's the tonality where I feel the B&O loses to the others.

I took some acoustic measurements of the BMW stereo using measurement software (SysTune and SMAART). Have not done this with the B&O yet but one of these days I might do it. I'll be interested to compare tonality curves between the cars.

subterFUSE

Looser is not the word I would use to describe how the S580 drives. At speed on the highway, the Mercedes feels very solid and stable... like nothing could possibly shake it or push it around. The Audi S8 feels like a stiff crosswind could push you around in your lane. The Mercedes feels like nothing could push it around. It feels like a heavier and more substantial car. Like a tank, even. The Audi gives the impression if I needed to make a high speed lane change it would respond faster. The car seems to react more quickly to steering inputs. The Mercedes wants to hold its lane more, if that makes sense? Small steering inputs don't move the car around as much, at least that's how I perceived it.

Neither of these cars are track cars, but if you had to drive one on a track the S8 is the one you want.... no question.

On a long road trip, I would honestly prefer the Mercedes. The overall stability at speed, the interior comfort, and the superior technology (self-driving, HUD, NAV, etc...) make for a better trip for me personally.
S8 is still a great trip car I just think the Mercedes comes out ahead in this area of comparison.

subterFUSE

I am also just remembering another difference between the Merc and the Audi. Seating position and steering wheel.

In the Mercedes, the steering wheel is larger (both diameter and thickness of the wheel) and it seems to be positioned more closely to your torso. The Audi has a smaller and thinner wheel, and it also seems to be positioned further away from your body so you are reaching for it.
I prefer the Audi steering wheel position, personally. I like to have my arms extended out more.

angrypengu

I would agree w/ you that the Burmester Advanced 3D/4D sound system is pretty dang good, however the base Burmester stereo system is one of the worst sound systems I have ever heard in my life. What sort of OEM puts such a terrible system *with no subwoofer*? Agreed re EQ, but to my ears anyway, I'm after a reference sound system. B&O gives me that.

If I could have the ML system from the 5LS though, I'd take that. I haven't listened to the new Bowers system on the new 7 series and hope it's a redemption from the last version. the last one was...atrocious.

subterFUSE

My friend that works at Mark Levinson also competes in car audio shows, and he is one of the most decorated competitors in the history of the leagues. He installed the NAV screen and touch pad from a Lexus LS500 in his Suzuki.
He uses the Mark Levinson DSP/Amplifier, although he is able to unlock the full power of the DSP for tuning. He has access to all sorts of adjustments that the Lexus customer never sees.

When you consider that he is competing with, and often beating, guys who spend $100k+ on ultra-high-end, esoteric audio gear, it really says a lot about how good that Lexus system really is. I don't think there is another factory stereo on the market that has that level of potential.

When I owned the F90 M5 with the Bowers & Wilkins I did not like it a whole lot at the time. It was acceptable for tonality but the soundstage was low and diffuse and imaging was non-existent. Only way to get a good image and stage in that car was to sit in the middle seat in the back.
But when I got the B&O Advanced in my S8, I found myself wishing I had the Bowers & Wilkins back. The B&O is too harsh in the midrange for me. A little bit of tone control was necessary, but more precision with an EQ would be nice.
I've never heard the lower-level Burmester, but I do own a 2023 R8 with B&O and obviously it's not anything like the B&O in the S8. Fewer speakers. No motorized acoustic lenses in the dash. Less power, etc....

One thing about the Mercedes, the factory speaker locations are actually quite good for doing aftermarket. Specifically, the midbass in the firewall under the dash is really nice.
But, I'm a car lease guy now so I don't own a car long enough to mess with the audio anymore. I wish I could, but having a car for only 3 years I just can't justify doing a major install for such a short timeframe.

angrypengu

I do agree w/ this assessment however it does really come down to what folks are looking for. B&O and the ML system on the Lexus are reference audio systems. The Burmester system on the S class is not. The last 7 series Bowers system is...well, let's just say even BMW realized they needed to fix it for the present gen and they did (and added a honking huge screen in the back).

I own several B&O home systems including the Beolab 50. I think what some folks are referencing here re midrange (and even for the treble) is actually 'working as intended'. This is how B&O has always been. The 5LS's ML system is a much much warmer system and that's also how it's been throughout the entirety of the Lexus LS/RX range over many many years.

Torque450

I know what you mean about stability - I had a company S55 AMG years back and that was planted on straight roads. On the steering, I think the A8s is well-judged - maybe it's just a quicker rack or the parameters are sharper?

Interestingly for me though, I find the A8 the most stable car I've owned when driving through standing surface water at speed (70mph+) on All Season tyres. I guess the weight helps, but It is impressive.

A8bil

Ditto...I commented in an earlier thread how much more confidence-inspiring the D5 is on the freeway in a downpour. Barely flinches going through standing water at 70.

KK22

I think it's mostly chassis tuning, and rear wheel steering. Two trips to Florida in the D5 from Chicago and it travels like a freight train with jet engines.

This includes the horrendous winter storm of December 2022, where we had cars going off the highway left and right as far south as Tennessee, and the ice crunched under my all season Pirellis like glass as we carefully drove past the carnage.

Not an S-class, but my 740 definitely had a more nervous front end, some might interpret that as nimble, but that also may be due to the lighter 6 cylinder up front and the lack of all wheel steer for highway stability.