Torque450

The A5 name continues. It's just not the coupe you like.

pcc125

Yes, in its 4 door style, which I personally do not care for. Tesla scared most of the car manufacturers and almost all jumped into the world of EV's without doing their full due diligence on the bottom line nor understanding the consumer and market conditions. Now that reality is beginning to set in, the car world is realizing that EV's are not quite ready for prime time.

kelisko

EV is the future. The power and reliability of internal combustion engines used to define the automotive industry. Legacy automakers used to rule in that field. They are now entering a totally different world where everybody is starting from scratch, and those inexperienced who started a bit earlier are the leaders. The most important market which is the Chinese market is now dominated by Chinese products that rival Germany's finest, and are already being sought after and appreciated outside of China in many markets except North America. Legacy automakers need to rethink their strategy but I fear it may be too late. Too many mistakes already made.

pcc125

@kelisko I agree with you that the most important market is China due to the cheer size of it. I don't know the answer about the EV being the future as there are still too many issues to be ironed out. Legacy car makers wanted to slow down Tesla's market penetration and they failed.

kelisko

I really thought the VW group would use Audi to properly beat Tesla back then. With Audi being one of the very few first legacy automakers entering the race and with the financial capability and the extensive experience of the VW group, I thought Audi would really kick Telsa in a **** real bad in no time. Unfortunately year after year it's been only failures.

5 years later, Tesla is still the undisputed king of EVs and the Hyundai group has some of the most interesting offerings, some rivalling the VW group's ultra-luxury supercars. "Le monde à l'envers" like the French say. Now, the Chinese who were barely known are everywhere in the news. BYD is killing it and is now the number one selling car brand in China and in Asia Pacific whereas VW used to rule in that region. BYD and other Chinese automakers also started selling cars in many European countries including Germany.

Failures after failures, VW recently decided to invest in Rivian because they are incapable of coming up with something that works. They need to abandon that strategy of max profit, planned obsolescence, ultra-sophistication, over-engineering and customer deception or they will keep losing. Most customers, fanboys aside, are not stupid.

pcc125

Well said Kelisko. I am not sure how smart VW's decision is to invest in a money losing operation like Rivian. In my humble opinion, EV's are great but, the current infrastructure to support charging stations is not there and will take a long time to get to a sufficient/efficient level. When you can fill up your ICE car in under 3 minutes, and charge a car to 80 percent in around 30 minutes (for those that can do that), a lot of customers will opt for ICE, not to mention the range anxiety that varies with weather conditions and driving styles. Personally, I am staying away from EV's until these issues are resolved. Also, take a look at the resale values of EV's out there in the market place. A $129k Taycan can be gotten for under $60k. Just saying there is a time and place for everything and EV's are just not there yet. I would consider a hybrid vehicle that has a decent electric range for the work commutes, and only charge it at home. Have you seen the electric car charging stations that are powered by diesel run generators?

kelisko

Rivian need the money. The VW group need the technology. It is a win-win deal. Any startup would lose money the first years. Tesla is a great example of that. Many other new brands in America as well as in China are losing money. It takes time to hit the curve and it takes a lot of investment.

I agree that the world is not ready to go fully EV. ICEs play a very important role today and will keep playing that role for many, many years to come. However with the increasing need to reduce emissions, ICEs are becoming too complicated, unreliable and expensive to produce. More and more auto manufacturers are choosing to kill their engines. V6s and V8s have been axed everywhere. 4-cylinder engines on steroids are now in bigger vehicles that used to have V8s in them. Cars sound like drones, have too many gears and feel lifeless. EVs on the other hand provide great acceleration, great handling and relative lower cost of ownership. Soon people would rather purchase an EV over a comparably priced ICE vehicle despite the longer charging needs and the range anxiety.

I believe EVs will keep growing in popularity unless somebody comes up with the magic ICE. I am interested myself.

A8bil

There is research going on with respect to environmentally friendly fuel replacements for legacy vehicles. I hope it continues. EVs are in the early stages of a massive investment in technology to improve charging speeds, capacity, life, etc. Who knows what the next few years will bring in terms of solving these issues. A 500 mile range EV that recharges to 80% in 15 minutes makes the ICE vehicle obsolete. When will that arrive? Who knows.

Torque450

Solid state battery tech will apparently be the game changer.

Pathfinder11

sounds like an S8