dcsst28

Okay, so I am unable to check the timing, because my timing light does not work. I am in the process of getting a new one.

I pulled the boot between the throttle body and mixture control unit, and it seems pretty solid. I have not found any leaks there.

I am unable to get to the idle switch on the bottom of the throttle body. I do not want to take the throttle body off just to look at that. I really need a way to test it in its current state.

I do not have that fuse in the picture. I have the one to the left of it.

I wanted to turn the crankshaft until I could see the timing mark on the fly wheel, and I thought it would be easier to access the crankshaft bolt by taking off the bumper; I have learned that these bumpers were not meant to be removed. They are held on by the plastic things that bend outwards once you put them through the hole. It is almost impossible to get them out of the hole (without breaking them anyway).

I learned the ISV is not the solution to the idle problem. It is meant to keep the idle from hunting, but it will not bring idle down that is over 2000 rpms high. I still have to try capping the inlet and outlet holes to see if that makes a difference, but I do not think it will at this point.

Still looking for the problem.

Rogviler

I don't have any further advice for the problem at the moment, but I think the easiest way to remove the bumper is to take the turn signals out and there are three bolts that hold the shocks to the frame of the car. If you get those out then the metal bumper and the cover will slide forward and off in one piece. The bumper cover is frustrating to get off by itself. I don't know if they changed it later on, but I know on the '85 it's held on by these weird hollow rectangular protrusions, and there are like ten of them. Pretty much impossible with the bumper still attached if you ask me.

If all else fails you could just briefly touch the starter off with the key and repeat until you can see the timing mark. It's bound to stop at TDC at some point.

-Rog

dcsst28

Well, I got a timing light and checked the timing. I turned the distributor clockwise, and the rpms dropped. However, I haven't found the TDC mark yet. So, I know it is not timed right yet, but I have a feeling that I will not see the mark until I highlight it somehow, just like it was suggested here. When I start it now, it idles at about 1100 rpms, but if I push the gas, the idle doesn't return to 1100. It stays high. Also, there is a delay from when I press the gas to when the engine speeds up. I think it is pretty badly out of time.

I looked at the valves in the throttle body, and they are fully closed. I do not know how to test the idle switch yet, so I have not ruled that out.

I put a new air filter in; the other one was really dirty. I think gas is leaking from the fuel distributor into the air box. I saw a little gas sitting on top of the arm that raises the plunger.

The ISV did not make a difference.

Rogviler

Oh, I forgot to mention, and maybe you already know this, but sometimes the mark on the flywheel is ruty or dirty, so there are two other ways to tell if the engine is at TDC:

One is that the point of the distributor rotor will line up with a little tick mark on the distributor housing. If I remember correctly, the rotor should be pointing at like 8:00 if you're looking at it from the top.

And the other way is that there's a little dot on the camshaft sprocket that should line up with the edge of where the valve cover meets the head on the driver's side. You'd have to take the timing cover off of course...

But yeah, the timing mark on the flywheel is ridiculous.

-Rog

socalclimber

The only thing I can add to Rog's comments for finding timing mark is that it's an "0" on flywheel and a thin line on front crank pulley which is supposed to aline with a small dot (indent) on lower timing cover (if that's even visible?).

If you get in the ballpark by clicking starter (check as in Rog's post), you may be able to move engine a bit by turning cam gear (remove upper cover timing cover). Be careful, turn slow, you don't want to jump time!

Idle/Full throttle switch testing
http://www.humanspeakers.com/audi/tuning-cise.htm#g

CIS-E tuning/troubleshooting
http://www.humanspeakers.com/audi/tuning-cise.htm
This guy has some good info here, mine the site!

Fuel drip under fuel distributor KE-systems
http://tech.bentleypublishers.com/th...5315&tstart=60
I don't recommend taking anything apart on the fuel distributor as they state in this post.

Audi 4000S, 4000CS and Coupe GT: 1984-1987 Official Factory Repair Manual
http://www.bentleypublishers.com/aud...ir-manual.html

Get this manual, maybe they have it at local library or can get it for you?

dcsst28

So, I pulled the bumper off, using Rog's advice. I turned the crankshaft until I saw the "0" on the flywheel; I then marked it with chalk. I also verified the dot on the back of the camshaft gear was aligned with the top of the valve cover gasket. Finally I turned the distributor until the tip of the rotor was aligned with the notch on the rim of the distributor. I then hooked up the timing light and started the engine. I could not see the mark I made on the flywheel, because the idle was at around 2200 rpms (resetting the basic timing lowered it from 3000). I checked my Bentley (I do have one, by the way; I just did not think to look in it for instructions on testing the full-throttle and idle switches), and the advance is supposed to be between 15 and 20 degrees at 2200 rpms. I had to turn the advance to 24 to get the mark to line up. I then turned the advance down to 20 degrees, and I turned the distributor until the mark lined up. Now the timing should be good. Doing this, by the way, lowered the idle to 2000 rpms.

I was not able to test the full-throttle or idle switches; there are no terminals on the full-throttle switch I can place the multimeter test probes against, and the idle switch is under the throttle assembly. I am still very unsure how to proceed in this direction. I was thinking about asking Shokan if they had a throttle assembly with the switches attached. I am sure it will be pricey...

I heard from someone that adjusting the mixture by turning that screw between the air-sensor plate and the fuel distributor will also adjust idle. My Bentley mentions turning that screw. The only thing is I would not know if the mixture was too rich or too lean, because I do not have access to any test equipment which can read those values from the exhaust. Not sure about this route either.

So I have to decide which direction to take. I do not know any other possible causes of the idle problem.

I was wondering if maybe I have a bad head gasket. That would make it hard to start, right? I have to crank it over and over again, and I can feel some cylinders firing; I just have to keep cranking as an assist until all cylinders finally fire.

More important right now is the idle problem, because I know I can get it started eventually. Hopefully with the new information I have presented, someone will have an idea.

Thanks.

socalclimber

Sounds like you got ignition timing in the ballpark, that's good.

ISV, I would just remove one end from hose, and put a piece of plastic (like a baggie) and slip it back into boot. See if this brings down high idle.

Idle switches--car off, unplug connector that goes to ECU and leave that alone. That 3-prong connector is usually within 2-6 inches of throttle body, attached to a bracket near intake manifold. These are like 2 light switches, sharing the center male prong, nothing more. We want to see if they open (infinite ohms) or closed (zero ohms).

Test on the 3-prong male connector with harness removed that goes to throttle switches. Put one test lead of ohm meter on center and one on one of the outside prongs and operate throttle. If it closes (0 ohms) at full throttle, you have the full-throttle switch circuit.

The idle switch will be the other side and middle terminal, and should be 0 ohms when idle is closed.

Mixture: don't mess with this screw, you need the test harness and amp-meter to measure mill-amps of DPR to see where mixture is. It's probably okay, this is the last thing you would check after you rule out vacuum leaks, etc, unless it looks like someone previous screwed things up severely.

If you can't find idle switch connector that I'm talking about, post a pic or two of your engine, ISV, and associated area. Good luck!

dcsst28

So, I tested the idle and full-throttle switches. When the full-throttle switch is closed all the way, the resistance is 8.6 Ohms. When it is open, it is infinite. If I use the throttle to close the switch, the resistance is about 1 to 2 k Ohms, because the throttle does not close the switch all the way.

When the idle switch is open, the resistance is infinite. Also, when the idle switch is closed, the resistance is infinite. It seems that I might have a couple of bad switches, or at least they need adjusted.

dcsst28

I tried the plastic baggy over the ISV, and it might have made a 250 rpm difference, but the idle is still hovering between 2000 and 2500 rpms.

socalclimber

okay, so it sounds like idle switch is blown. It should read 0 Ohms or nearly zero when throttle is closed. Full switch sounds like it is going (but Full is not as important as idle switch).

You can adjust position of switches slightly with little set screws that hold them to body, but idle switch is nearly impossible to get to w/o removing throttle body IIRC. Maybe idle switch fell out of adjustment?, or someone moved factory idle butterfly stop (back off butterfly screw until free, then 1/2 turn once screw contacts butterfly stop). This could also cause idle switch NOT to close.

You tested with ECU connector removed, right? Now, that you've identified which 2 prongs are idle switch, you could just put a jumper (small loop of small gauge wire will work) on those 2 female sockets to the ECU and see if it makes a difference. This would simulate a closed throttle. It may not make a difference, I mean blown idle switch may not be reason for erratic idle. But, it's good to have idle switch working as intended.

DPR, from earlier I see you couldn't measure DPR milli-Amp current. This might be a blown fuse in your volt-ohm-amp meter, then it won't pass current at all and be an open circuit. Test your amp meter on a 12v light bulb, like a tail light or similar, to make sure it is reading amps or milli-amps.

DPR current is the meat-and-potatoes of your FI system, and being able to read this is crucial for testing and initial setup. You will see where you are in mA. Is it flucuating widely? Is it at a lean or rich stop? Meaning that system cannot compensate one way or the other. Also, reading this current with coolant temp sensor unplugged and with a 15K Ohm jumper installed in its place is another test, as is unplugging O2 sensor (and grounding sensor output) to see where mA goes.

Do you have the DPR test harness or did you make one of your own? Access to Bentley manual?

Maybe a trip to a junkyard is in order, and see if you can pickup a good used idle/full switch? Get or buy a new coolant temp sensor, or test yours with ohm meter as it goes from cold to 212 F (it is a linear curve). Or see if those parts are available new or used online?