onebrokenneck

So my water pump is leaking on my newish 4kq and I really don't want to do a t-belt/water pump on an engine that I planned on yanking out. This has accelerated my engine swapping project and I want to make sure I don't miss any little or big things that will cause me greif later. Here is what I want from you guys (and girls), a list of all things that should be done to the engine to prep for swapping or done to the car with the engine out of the way.

Car is 1985 Audi 4000 S quattro w/ stock motor @ 233,000 miles. New/used motor is a hopped up JT naturually aspirated motor. Engine received a port & polish, 5 angle valve grind, 272° cam, decked for increased compression, forged pistons, and some other stuff.

Engine and tranny are hanging on an engine hoist in my garage and I am eager to get started on this project. The car is my daily driver and I need it to remain reliable and driveable for my 40 mile round trip commute. This swap, with the proper preperations should allow me to have the old motor out and the freshened up rebuild motor in over the course of a weekend. Any one that is going to recommend I do a turbo swap instead, having my car out of commision for a week or ten is out of the question.

The engine has 60,000 miles since it's rebuild so I am not planning on any major tear down (i.e.: not replacing head gasket, no bottom or top end rebuild, etc...). I am going to replace gaskets and seals but am unsure of which ones should be, need to be, or have to be done. I will be pulling off the intake and exhaust manifolds along with the valve cover so all of those are a no brainer. What about the crankshaft seals and camshaft seals? Are they easy to replace and/or neccessary?

Following is my current to do list:
-Set the timing marks before removing transmission.
-Remove transmission.
-Mount engine on engine stand.
-Remove manifolds, alt/ps/ac mounts, valve cover, injectors, belts, oil pan, etc...
-Clean cylinder head and engine block. What cleaning product works best for this?
-Mask/tape off and prep for painting the block.
-Paint block an undetermined color (accepting suggestions on this one but kinda leaning towards black). Any BTDT advice on painting a block would be appreciated as I have never done it before.
-Bead blast all brackets, mounts, and intake manifold to prep for finishing.
-All steel parts including t-belt covers, valve cover, oil pan, brackets, crank breather tube, etc... are getting gold zinc plated.
-Intake manifold and other aluminum brackets/parts will be getting ceramic chrome coated. Intake manifold maybe not neccessary or any benefit on an NA motor but I love the way it looks and I want everything to match. Plus, it has to help reduce intake air temperature so it may add some miniscule performance gain.
-Depending on time frame, I may also be building a set of tubular headers to replace the cast manifold & downpipe. If time does not permit, the manifold and down pipe will most likely also get ceramic chrome finish.
-Replace all necessary gaskets, seals, sensors, etc...
-Replace clutch, throw out bearing, clutch slave and master.
-Depending on condition of the fly wheel, it may get lightened and blanced or maybe replaced with a Fidanza aluminum unit. I would like suggestions on this one from both sides. Needs to be driveable so input from people who have done this would be appreciated.
-All new hoses and belts. Anyone tried the 034 silicone hoses yet?
-New water pump and t-belt roller.
-New heater control valve.
-New heater core.
-New/used overflow tank and cap.
-New motor/tranny/diff mounts.
-New cap, wires, plugs, rotor.
-Oil pump.. while I have the engine on the stand with the oil pan off, should this be replaced? It seems a bit high priced but it would be a major PITA to fix later.
-Adjustable timing gear? There wasn't one on the motor for 60k and it ran fine when I bought the car. What kind of benefit can be had from one of these?
-New starter.

Ok so my list isn't complete but anything I am missing or any advice/input on this project would be greatly appreciated. This isn't going to be cheap but once I am done, the engine bay will look a lot nicer and I will hopefully be grinning from the power increase over the stock tired motor. I also will have the comfort of knowing what has been replaced and when.

After this project is completed or possibly done at the same time depending on funds and time, I will be doing strut top mounts, a-arm bushings, sway bar bushings, sub frame mounts, etc...

Later on down the road I will be addressing the interior and exterior cosmetic issues. Car badly needs a respray and the front seats need to be reupholstered or may be replaced with some adjustable aftermarket seats.

Dwight V.

Swapping the engine in/out takes a weekend. All the work you've posted above is another week of evenings plus two weekends, methinks.

Some of it is unnecessary, IMO, but it's your money.

Lighten the existing flywheel. I wouldn't buy an aluminum one. I didn't replace the oil pump on mine and I've never heard of one wearing out. Silicone hoses are unnecessary, if you ask me, except on a turbo when heat is an issue. Making a header isn't worth the effort. You're not going to improve upon the 5-3-1 that you have already. I WOULD replace the cam and crank seals as they will leak when they get old and stiff and are work to replace with the engine in the car. Audi engines aren't exactly pretty, so I just painted mine black. Any decent degreaser (not Gunk, because it needs the engine hot to work) and a stiff brush will usually do the job, followed by a healthy stream of water to wash it off. Let it dry completely before trying to paint it. Do use engine paint, but not high heat paint.
I did not see new belts on your list. Try to buy Continental brand in the proper metric sizes rather than generic Dayco or Gates belts.

onebrokenneck

By weekend, I was not meaning that the whole project would be done in a weekend. Just the swap into the car once I am done working on the motor.

If there is other things you think are unnecessary besides what you posted, please let me know. I want people who have done this to give their honest opinion on what is needed and what is not. The cosmetic stuff is obviously unnecessary but that is not for function. That stuff is all personal prefence and I don't expect everyone to agree with or like what I choose to do.

I was leaning in the direction of machining the existing flywheel. How much did it cost to do yours?

The reason I was thinking about the oil pump was I was talking to one of my friends who did a 16v swap on a Mk2 Jetta. He thought about changing the oil pump and didn't. The pump ended up dying within a year of the swap and he had to change it anyways. I don't want to spend the $250+ if I don't have to so if the general concensus is that the Audi ones don't go bad, then I will gamble on the old one. I always have a spare out of the engine thats in the car now.

Besides the higher heat issue on silicone hoses, I have heard they outlast traditional rubber hoses. The price difference may make it a moot point though.

Building a header obviously isn't a neccesity. I work in a metal shop and I enjoy building things. I can laser cut my flanges for free and we have quite a few customers with mandrel benders so I have plenty of access to pre-bent sections of tube. It's something I have wanted to do for a long time. I'm not expecting to make any performance gains from this. This project will not be totally free so it all depends on my budget and time after all the important stuff is taken care of.

How difficult is it to change the crank and camshaft seals? Any special tools required to pull them?

Whats the difference between engine paint and high heat paint?

I'm pretty sure belts are on the list somewhere but that one is a no brainer. All new belts are a must and I always buy Conti belts.

Jretal

just make sure teh oil relief valve plunger moves freely inside the oil pump. If it doesnt, replace the pump. I ran into this issue, and had to R&R the pump because of it... not fun.

Otherwise, it's very rare for an audi pump to die unless that valve seizes, which has been known to happen from time to time.

84gtguy

i agree on using engine paint. the difference between that and hi temp is the temp it will take before discoloring or burning off. an engine paint looks better and will easily handle the temps your engine is going to put out. consider a color though, a little color on the block really makes the engine bay "pop". also paint the valve cover and oil pan while your at it. if you want the engine black, this is another place to add some color.

as far as the hoses go, the silicone is very nice and will outlast the rubber, but at the cost, it's just not worth it unless you'll be racing and putting alot of stress on the hoses. i will add though that the silicone looks better over the long run, it doesn't take on stuff that will discolor it as much. while you have everything apart, i would add an engine dress up kit. since you're obviously trying to make the bay area as pleasing to the eye as possible, why not do it. braided steel over the rubber hoses looks great. pick a color for the hose clamps that will compliment your other color choices.

also add colored wire loom while your at it. even if it'd black, it looks great. again, a little color really adds to the bay area.

just a few ideas.

onebrokenneck

I will take a look at that when I get it all apart. I may be e-mailing you for more info in the near future depending on what I find. Is the valve rebuildable/replaceable? Or would I need to replace the pump if I run into this problem?

AudiSport4000

It depends on how much work you want to put into it. If I had the choice to do things over again I could have prettied things up a tad by slapping paint on the block and cleaning things more, but I unfortunately didnt take the time.

Do things to where you wont have any regrets, you dont wanna yank the motor out again, BTDT!

Dwight V.

The VW oil pumps are failure prone, whereas the Audi ones are not. I understand your concern, but if there is no wear to the existing one (and you can check measurements if you are really paranoid) I wouldn't stress on it.

Silicone hoses will ALLEGEDLY last longer, but I don't see it being worth the price difference. OEM hoses last for, what?, 15-20 years? You expect to still own the thing that long? If the hoses were real beeotches to replace maybe I'd consider it, but not on this car.

I just thing the header time could better be invested elsewhere. Plus, headers (especially untested ones) may develop cracks or rust over time where your original manifold system won't.

I also wouldn't (and didn't) spend money on special coatings. On a real race engine they may help, but on a street driven car I think it's money flushed.

High heat paint is engineered for really hot things like exhaust manifolds. Sad thing is, it still won't stick there either. I've found that high heat paint doesn't do a very good job of paiting anything. Regular VHT or similar engine paint is good for anything on the engine. I've also used crinkle paint on valve covers and oil pans to hold up better over time.

onebrokenneck

It wasn't the high heat stuff but it was labeled as "Engine Paint". It's ceramic based and good to 500°. I have been thinking though and I might want to exchange it for the semigloss that looked more like flat black. I'm thinking leaking fluids might be hidden slightly on a full gloss engine?

About the coatings:
Ceramic Chrome - I like the way it looks. Not concerned about whether there is a performance gain to be had. I also have a ceramic coating shop within two blocks of my work that has very affordable rates.

Gold Zinc Plating - I like the way it looks. The bonus is that it has excellent rust preventative qualities. I have two or three vendors I deal with at my work that offer this service and it's also fairly affordable.

And onto the headers... although I have been welding off and on for the past 11 years, I don't consider myself a good enough welder to do the finish welding on a set of headers. My game plan is to build a jig of the existing manifold/downpipe, cut and fit all of the tubing, tac weld the whole thing together, and then take it to one of my customers for finish welding that builds headers daily. They have sold hundreds of sets of headers and don't have issues with cracking. I have collected every picture I can find of aftermarket 4kq headers in addition to getting tubing size dimensions for primarys, collectors, and the output to the cat. If I have time to do this project, I will be using those as references and emulating their designs. It still boils down to a time issue and we will see how it plays out I guess.

On the oil pump, if there are specs in the manual for measurements and what not, I will probably check those. Also going to check the pressure valve Jretal mentioned. Otherwise, if it all seems fine, I will be re-using the existing pump. Plus I have a spare in the motor I'm pulling and there is another one in the new parts car.

Sounds like the general consensus is rubber hoses are the way to go.

Thank you for your input Dwight. Although I may seem a bit argumentative, I am taking in everyone suggestions and looking for what will work best for my budget and my available free time to work on the project.

Jretal

it's the pump that has the problem, not the valve. The valve/sensor assembly can be bought @ autohausaz for not too bad.

I think what happened to mine was that the pump met a hammer at one point in its life when being installed, slightly crushing the channel the valve goes into. I had the valve seize once and was able to drill it out. Then it seized again and I R&R'd the pump. When comparing the two side by side, the old, bad, pump was the issue. The valve was in there so tight I could barely get it out to put it in the new pump. When I put it in the new (used) pump, it literally slipped right in there w/o issue.

feel free to fire me an email with questions though, I'll answer them the best I can.