Went to a local meet/cookout tonight
10-19-2006, 01:28 PM
#11
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the story of the ix/quat rivalry (as its been told to me)
Now I'm not saying this is canon but simply what has been related to me.
In the early days of audi quattro racing (early 80's i think) audi had the strong edge with quattro. now the rules of the particular class (which one escapes me now maybe TOCA) was that the cars must be based on production vehicles. since bmw wanted in the awd game they came up with the 325ix with a center viscous coupling acting as the center diff and one acting as a limited slip rear diff. they made a production car starting in 88 and it never really sold well. the quattro was in deep in the awd sedan market and the ix never caught on stateside. with the ban on awd racing in 98(?) bmw abandoned its awd production offering at the end of the e30 style and focused on its e42 m3 monster. with the recent addition of the 325<u><b>Xi</b></i> (not to be confused with the ix of 88-91) awd has returned to bmw but only because of the buzz associated with awd in today's uneducated market.
the quattro ban has since been lifted in TOCA racing. i believe australia is the only factory team still campaigning for the lift of the ban.
thats how the story was related to me. i thought id share. while the e30 325ix wasnt much of a competitor for the quattro it was better than the efforts of other manufactures. it isnt commonly known that ford and nissan experimented with awd to offset the quattro dominance of touring car racing. their designs were non successful and their failures spoke volumes on the engineering genius of audi. that fact was ommitted when it was decided to ban awd. awd was not the unfair advantage as much as it was the expertise of audi. but since you cant ban smarts...
its all politics.
In the early days of audi quattro racing (early 80's i think) audi had the strong edge with quattro. now the rules of the particular class (which one escapes me now maybe TOCA) was that the cars must be based on production vehicles. since bmw wanted in the awd game they came up with the 325ix with a center viscous coupling acting as the center diff and one acting as a limited slip rear diff. they made a production car starting in 88 and it never really sold well. the quattro was in deep in the awd sedan market and the ix never caught on stateside. with the ban on awd racing in 98(?) bmw abandoned its awd production offering at the end of the e30 style and focused on its e42 m3 monster. with the recent addition of the 325<u><b>Xi</b></i> (not to be confused with the ix of 88-91) awd has returned to bmw but only because of the buzz associated with awd in today's uneducated market.
the quattro ban has since been lifted in TOCA racing. i believe australia is the only factory team still campaigning for the lift of the ban.
thats how the story was related to me. i thought id share. while the e30 325ix wasnt much of a competitor for the quattro it was better than the efforts of other manufactures. it isnt commonly known that ford and nissan experimented with awd to offset the quattro dominance of touring car racing. their designs were non successful and their failures spoke volumes on the engineering genius of audi. that fact was ommitted when it was decided to ban awd. awd was not the unfair advantage as much as it was the expertise of audi. but since you cant ban smarts...
its all politics.
10-20-2006, 02:43 AM
#12
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BMW hasn't ever used awd in touring cars - where did you get that?
for that matter, Audi didn't run a touring car series with awd until very late in the 80's - before that, they were using (gasp) GT's and fwd 90's in touring series, and the Ur's and Coupe Quattros were relegated to Rally use, where they were most effective.
The E30 M3, which was BMW's most effective touring car (and, for that matter, the most winning touring chassis of all time), was, like the rest of the M series, only rwd.
If you look at any of those touring series, they aren't won by necessarily the best design, but the company that spends the most money on development. Audi came in honking with the 200 and V8 touring cars, dropped a load of money, and won the series. Mercedes got pissed, spent ungodly money on the 190E Evo and C class touring cars, and won the series. BMW got pissed, changed focus and won LeMans. Mercedes got pissed, spent a boatload of money, and flipped cars. Audi decided it was their turn, spent a boatload of money, and won LeMans.
Inevitably, these series are won by whoever can drop the most money on them.
Your info seems a bit off.
Carter
The E30 M3, which was BMW's most effective touring car (and, for that matter, the most winning touring chassis of all time), was, like the rest of the M series, only rwd.
If you look at any of those touring series, they aren't won by necessarily the best design, but the company that spends the most money on development. Audi came in honking with the 200 and V8 touring cars, dropped a load of money, and won the series. Mercedes got pissed, spent ungodly money on the 190E Evo and C class touring cars, and won the series. BMW got pissed, changed focus and won LeMans. Mercedes got pissed, spent a boatload of money, and flipped cars. Audi decided it was their turn, spent a boatload of money, and won LeMans.
Inevitably, these series are won by whoever can drop the most money on them.
Your info seems a bit off.
Carter
10-20-2006, 05:27 AM
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the original coupes are the best.. especially the csl
<center><img src="http://www.cs-zone.com/images/3.0cslbatmobile.grijs.jpg"></center><p>although i had an '88 635csi that was absolutly amazing.
and i believe the awd system used in the e30's ix's was borrowed from ford..
and i believe the awd system used in the e30's ix's was borrowed from ford..
10-20-2006, 08:34 AM
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No, Pontiac 6000 and Ford Tempo were the AWD competition.. :-)
Not really to do with anything, but I'll bet you didn't know that the Pontiac 6000 and Ford Tempo came in AWD versions...
Pontiac 6000 AWD link:
http://www.geocities.com/ste86sc3800/6000awd.html<ul><li><a href="http://groups.google.ca/group/alt.autos.ford/browse_frm/thread/7fc3721642459575/5ed3b93878f9c2ad?tvc=1&q=ford+tempo+all+wheel+ drive&hl=en#5ed3b93878f9c2ad">Ford Tempo AWD link</a></li></ul>
Pontiac 6000 AWD link:
http://www.geocities.com/ste86sc3800/6000awd.html<ul><li><a href="http://groups.google.ca/group/alt.autos.ford/browse_frm/thread/7fc3721642459575/5ed3b93878f9c2ad?tvc=1&q=ford+tempo+all+wheel+ drive&hl=en#5ed3b93878f9c2ad">Ford Tempo AWD link</a></li></ul>
10-23-2006, 07:33 PM
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Nah, the prettiest BMW coupe is still the most rare...
<center><img src="http://www.7-forum.com/news/news2004/mille_miglia_bmw328-p0015577-d.jpg"></center><p>328 Mille Miglia Touring Coupe. Undoubtedly, also worth the most money. I'd say a close second is the M1/M1 Procar, and the 3.0/3.5 CSL's third.
10-23-2006, 07:42 PM
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Ooooo, and don't forget the "I'll kick your a** now" 320i turbo
<center><img src="http://www.7-forum.com/news/2005/technoclassica/bmw_320_gruppe5_7998-c.jpg"></center><p>see what Audi missed out on? They were too busy building Audi 50s....
:-)
:-)