Number68

First off, guys, you're confusing the sh it out of him. His code is for a timing reference sensor, so telling him to check the fuel pump check valve is like telling someone to check their tire pressures when their car is missing.

Matt, get yourself a bently, or find someone who does. You need to bench test both of your flywheel sensors (the RPM and the other one), both should have a certain amount of resistance.

If they check out, move to your distributor, test to make sure the hall sensor is within spec.

if it is, check your timing, turn the engine until the rotor in the distributor is pointing at the little groove cut in it. and then look through the hole in your bell housing, turn the engine one way or the other until the little zero is exactly centered under the edge of the cutout.

and then just for piece of mind, if you look at the right side of the back of the timing cover, you will see a little notch cut out, the groove on the back of the cam gear needs to be lined up with the valve cover gasket.

then check the position of the rotor, it should, and probably will, be damn close to being lined up with the notch you looked at previously.

that's enough to keep you busy for a little while, lemme know when you get that done

mattmondo

All,

Hmmmm. Need friends with a Bentley Manual!

Back from the dead (flu) now and had a little time to work on it. The following was done:

before: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujbGN_Qku84

Replaced starter (MUCH smoother start now. May have been a small contributor to the issue.
Replaced that RPM sensor assembly with a KNOWN GOOD set of sensors from a reliable Audi Source.
Replaced leaking J Hose (unrelated, but needed to be done.)
New MANN Fuel Filter.

After (vol up!): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7k06fxcAGic (sorry for the radio)

Got to say, even now it starts pretty well! I will look over the tasks #68 said to do. I do not know how to check the hall effect sensor in the dist or the resistances in the sensors; I trust I have to remove the dist cap to see these timing marks, right?

Thanks again all for the help!

mattmondo

Update!

Car started perfect last night. Let idle for 40 mins, shut off and restarted 5x, problem free.

TODAY! Fires right up; Drive to Home Depot (5 min from home, 31F degs outside. Heat turns on about 2 min before reaching HD.) Inside for 10 min, come out, NO START! Crank 5 seconds, then pull codes: 4444 (no problems)

Wait 5 mins, crank again, little sputter. Crank again holding gas to floor and takes 20 seconds of puttering, shuttering and popping to finally start. Ran perfect then.

Suggested that injector(s) are bad (internal leakdown)???

Number68

ehhh, considering you need to hold the pedal down, I'd vote on a vac leak somewhere, the only thing pushing the pedal down does is opens the throttle plate, which allows more air to pass over the metering plate, hence giving you more gas. I had a similar problem a while back. I'd also recommend cleaning your ISV. It's the silver cylindrical thing behind your intake manifold, spray some throttle body (NOT carb) cleaner into it and let it soak, repeat until it comes out clear. then hit it with a 9 volt battery a couple times while spraying to really loosen the grime up

mattmondo

ill try the throttle cleaner idea. I am not 100% sure i needed to hold the gas down to start it; I was simply desperate for options so I could get to work!

Sadly, got to work, came out about 90 mins later and no start. This time cranked, waited 2 mins, then cranked again. Puttered while cranking, THEN held the gas down to get it going. Once running, all was well.

Drove for an hr. Stopped at Subway for 5 mins, came out and fired right up. Drove a mile, stopped at the store for 15 min, fired right up!

Back to work for 3 hrs, came out and fired right up! I'm Puzzled.....

I heard the injectors leaking down will cause this issue; If the need to be changed, then I'll do so. However, I will hate the dump this $ into the car to find out it was the wrong thing!

Number68

new injectors certainly are a great thing, I did them in my car and she accelarated so much smoother, that said, it's not worth the money unless you really need it. If you decide to do it, I can help walk you through the job, and teach you some tricks, etc on how to save money and whatnot.

Check over all your vac lines, esp the ones going to the wastegate, mine had a huge crack in it...

Supradjza80

My 87 acted similarly and had actually cracked around the turbo inlet hose making unmetered air able to enter the turbo. It drove fine but started like ****. It would cold start everytime, and If I shut it off right away and tried to restart it would not start. Wait 5 minutes and it would start again. Even if the engine was hot it did the same thing.

audi_marv

Classic signs of a fuel pressure leakdown issue. This could come from several sources:

1. Leaking fuel injectors
2. Faulty Fuel Pressure Regulator/Valve
3. Faulty Fuel Accumulator
4. Stuck Fuel Pump Check Valve
5. Leaking Fuel Distributor (hope not)
6. (intermittent fuel pump relay is also a concern)

When you shut off the car, all of the above are supposed to let the fuel pressure drop to a certain point, and hold it there. Simply put...Low enough not to create problems/fire, but high enough to start the car after a few engine turns.

Its a "Timed" drop. The pressure is still high after 5-10 minutes of shutting it off...which is why the car starts right up. After 30 minutes or so...one or more of the above is letting the pressure drop too far, and you have a No-Start. After 3 hours, the system has stabilized and cooled, and you get assistance of the cold start valve...and the car starts right up again. After a No-Start...due to long cranking, and pressing on the gas, the pressure finally builds up, and the car starts.

If you had true Injector problems, after the car starts, it would still run a bit crappy, and your mpg would suck.

- - Next time you get the no start, turn key on (don't crank) and place a fuse atop the fuel pump relay. this turns on your fuel pump to pressurize system. After about 10secs, remove fuse, and try to start car.


Rule of thumb is to always check the easy stuff first...and try solutions one-at-a-time:

- Fuel Pump Regulator - (may be an internal or external reg.). The internal regulator valve/needle is located at the front of the fuel distributor. Unscrew 10mm nut. Place a rag under it as some gas will come out. The Valve/needle has a green o-ring on the end, a spring, and another o-ring on the needle tip...which go bad. After replacing, car will require long cranking to build fuel pressure back up.
On my 5k the green o-ring was bloated from gas and age, and the o-ring on the tip had dissolved completely. This valve is only supposed to allow so much gas to return to the tank after shut-off, and it may be allowing too much to pass thru - causing the hard starts. You can find a replacement part on SJM or Autohausaz.com for about $38 bucks.

- Have you replaced your Fuel Pump Relay ($25 bucks)? This could go faulty when engine heat gets it hot...but works fine after it cools down.

- You also have a Temp Sensor at the front of the engine under the power steering pump bracket that goes to the ECU, and assists in starts. Costs about $8 bucks. Check the wiring there also.


These are cheap, simple checks you can do first....as a fuel injector job may cost you over $300 bucks even if you do it yourself. I think you have the air-cooled injectors also...which have plastic inserts which crack or break off due to age (more of a hassle to change). The other items above require a more work and expense also, so this is a good starting point.

Check all of the above on the SJM troubleshooting site first....(although too much knowledge can be a dangerous thing...

Good Luck...

mattmondo

#68: I would love any tricks to swapping out these injectors.

Supra: I had the same issue for about a year, but now it seems have manifested into this issue.

Anyone have a good vacuum diagram? I am about to go to lunch; Lets see how it starts!!!

Number68

for the vac lines, if they haven't ever been changed to your knowledge, I recommend just changing them ALL with new.

and for the injectors:

this is a writeup I did a while back

http://www.justfourrings.com/phpBB2/...?p=19111#19111