nefarious219

Hey guys, the last time I posted I just began replacing the fuel tank on my 86' 5000 CS TQ. Which I must say thanks again to all who helped me out. The install went smoother than I thought. I only have a few things to finish up, mainly just the rear brakes and go back through and retorque some stuff for piece of mind. So since everything was good to go ( at least to start the beast up ), I filled her with about 2+ gallons of 93 octane, cranked the motor over a few times to get the fuel moving up front, cranked her over a few more times, crap, she wont start. Ok, first thing to obviously check was to see if she was getting fuel, So I unloosened the feed line at the fuel filter, and yup the fuel squirted out with pressure. Cranked her over again for a few seconds to now check if the fuel was leaving the fuel distributor, and yup fuel squirted out with pressure. So I scratch my head and decide to check the spark plugs just to make sure fuel was making it's way into the combustion chamber and sure enough it was. Ok, from there my next obvious thing to determine was if she was getting any spark. So I checked for arc at the ignition coil and wouldn't ya know, there was none. So from there I decided to pull the codes to see what else could be wrong. ( The car has sat for close to a year, it failed inspection due to a leaking fuel tank, I've owned it since 2004 ) The only code I pulled was 2322(IAT). Ok, well now at least I knew the ignition coil wasn't sending spark and I needed a new IAT sensor. So I went to the wrecker and grabbed a IAT sensor off this sad neglected 86 5000 Avant they have. Soldered that in and no more 2322 code. So from there I searched around and found a used working ignition coil, installed that, and ta-da, SPARK! YEY! Ok, she should start now, right? Nope! She just turns over. Ok, ok, I'll pull the codes again. Crank the car for 5 seconds, insert a spare fuse into the fuel pump relay, pull after 4 seconds. Jump inside to write down the blinking codes, but what the hell? The check engine light isn't blinking, it's just looking at me. Ok, I'll try again. So I cranked her over, inserted the fuse and went to listen to the fuel pump kick on, nothing. No sound at all... When I first pulled the codes and the car told me 2232(IAT) I made sure I could hear the fuel pump turn on, but now it wont, and now when I rechecked fuel pressure at the filter and fuel distributor there was none, it just lightly dripped out... Ok, so before I had fuel pressure, no spark, and I could pull codes. Now I have no fuel pressure, but I do have spark, but now I also can't pull codes... My question is, what would cause me not to pull codes? One day I could, the next day I couldn't. If the fuel pump relay shorted out would it cause this? Did I some how fry the ECU?? ( I have 3 spares, will try a different one tomorrow ) Am I even on the right path? Any insight or help would be greatly appreciated.

Nolan.

papinki

I went thru a very similar senerio , only to find that I had forgot to connect the ecu ground wires at the bracket near the cold start injector.
There are two brown ring connector wires that connect to the bracket just back and towards the drivers side above the cold start injector.
No ground...no ecu codes... no engine management ...no spark. Just a thought check them out. Maybe just my cars but with those wires loose Iam dead in the water.

nefarious219

Thanks Papinki, The first thing I did today was recheck all my grounds and wire brushed a few. The first time I went to pull codes today it was the same as yesterday, nothing. So I grabbed another fuse (I went from a 15amp to a 25amp, thou the 15amp I was using is fine) to stick in the fuel pump relay and all of a sudden I hear the fuel pump kick on, so I pulled the fuse, jumped in to see what it was blinking out and it blinked a 4433 (test #1 of the output tests) So I went through the 5 output tests. Turned the car off, tried to start. She just cranks over, the RPM tac does bump. I decided to check for spark again to make sure it was making it's way to the spark plugs, and all 5 spark plug wires are sending spark. I also rechecked fuel pressure at the feed line to the fuel filter and at the fuel distributor, and both had squirted out with pressure. So now I know i'm getting spark and fuel, but she still wont turn over. I cought a wiff of something and happened to look under the car and saw faint lite smoke coming out of the cat (the exhaust is off the car) So this tells me the fuel is trying to ignite... I also noticed now i'm stuck in the output test mode only when I pull codes. How do I clear everything and get back into the input tests? I checked the voltage of the battery using the climate control and it read out a 10.6, so at the moment I have the battery charging (I know 12.5 is what I want) So since I know i'm getting spark to the combustion chamber and fuel also, where do I go from their? I'm hoping the battery being low is now my no starting problem but I have a feeling it's not. Where should I go next?

Nolan.

papinki

Ok basic automotive. First off, visually look the engine over for obvious
problem, cracked dist/etc. Look for air line damage, any un metered air entering into the intake will shut you down.
Visually look the ecu over for good plug connection, no water damage. Next with car in the dark ,hood open, crank it over and watch for any arcing, sparks from the dark engine bay, wiring.

I assume your engine is in mechanical time correct? Front dampener pulley mark with fly wheel indicator mark. I assume you have no doubt about the fuel quality in the tank? I assume you have a good open flowing exhaust system? You will need at least 12vdc from the battery. Do a compression check each cylinder, look for balanced even readings. At this time visually look at each plug for indication of combustion problem. Check spark from any plug to ground ( pick a plug, hold with insulating pliers bring plug threads close to engine block, while cranking it over you should see a nice blue arc from about 10mm or less distance from spark body to engine) This will indicate a good hot voltage to the plugs.
next with timing light check for ignition pulse at each plug looking for correct interval of pulses. Next it is on to the fuel pressure checks. Here you will need a kit (autozone or the like about $90) to allow you to tap in at key locations to see if you got enough pressure. When you get to that point I have all the correct pressures ( and residual pressures) written down. Now check for correct ignition timing.
This all checks out and it will start. It may run rough and may need adjustment. See site sjmautotechnik.com for more fine detail. It seems like your hitting around all these key areas in hope to discover the problem. You need to check out the entire engine in a systematic approach when you are lost without a direction. Fuel alone is not enough, correct pressure is needed, spark alone needs to be at correct time, all cylinders must work together. Keep us posted here.

yota-toy

pull you spark plugs, sounds like it's flooded. If it is, crank eng. for a second with plugs out and see if the rear 3 cylinders are filling up.( leave key on after cranking eng.) if they are it may be the CSV. be sure to drain oil if you suspect there's fuel in it.

Papinki, I too learned the hard way on the intake manifold grounds on my first 5k

dukester

Had this same experience myself, tried everything I could think of (I have been a trade mechanic for 30 years). Finally got tired of checking and rechecking the same basic fuel, air, spark things and decided to change something. Took a used but good fuel pump relay out of the stash and plugged it in. Fired right up and ran better than ever. There is another contact in the relay that supplies power to the solenoids on key on and start. If this contact is bad, you can crank the engine till the cows come home and it won't start