Switchblind360

I just bought a 1991 200QT 20v and I am very new to the older engine and engine management. I'm much more knowledgeable on the newer cars where everything is controlled by the ECU and tuners offer the ECU solution with the turbo kit.

I am planning to upgrade the Turbo to the 034 Motorsport Garrett GT3071 kit and I am very curious to know what other people are doing for their tuning for this type of project and for RS2 type turbo set-ups. I'm looking to be around 300hp at the wheels for now. I think 630cc injectors should be enough (???)

I have reseached enough and have good knowledge of the HARDWARE i want (Turbo, exhaust, IC, clutch, etc), but its the management part that I'm struggling to find. I've searched the archives and the net and found some things, but I am curious to know what other people are running and how its working for them. What size fuel injectors? MAF tube size? ETC.

ECU programming?
Stand alone ECU?
Ben Swann?
Intended Acceleration?
Boost controller + A/F ratio controller?

5000Q86

if your looking for 300 whp for now, 700cc injectors will give you some leeway to play with duty cycles, as well as longevity should you decide to increase power later. the 630's will do the job, but being an electric solenoid, they dont like to be on for more then say around 80 percent of the cycle and anything over that risks getting the solenoid stuck in the on position, or total failure of the injector.

standalone will give you total control over some, most, or all of the computers functions. depending on the level you choose, you will open up more options. basics like fuel maps, duty cycle, timing advance/retard and rpm limiter, or more advanced like shift points and main line pressure (if its an automatic) TPS, a/f mixture, pretty much anything the computer controls from the factory is in your hands. some settings require wide-band sensors, or high flow MAF's to be effective.

if you want all the options or just a few, i can recommend some standalone units for you i can get through work.

Lemme know, i will soon be starting my 20v project as well. we can compare notes and see what works best

Eric

Switchblind360

Simplicity. Basically, I just want a solution to run the car effectively with my turbo set up.

Whether that be a stand-alone set-up or a chip.

I chose ~300whp just as a relatively safe point on the stock 3B engine (plus cams). At some point I will build the engine: Pistons, rods, valves, head gasket (lower compression), and at that point I will crank up the boost and hopefully squeeze another 75hp out of it.

For management, I just want something that I don't have to mess with too much. Set boost or tell the shop what ~boost I will be running, and the rest takes care of itself. Hopefully not too much $$$.

I have never got into any of management stuff too much, because there has always been a OTS kit with an ECU flash for my previous cars (01' A4 1.8T, 02' S4, '06 A4 2.0T, '00 A6 2.7T).
I understand the principals, but I am a newb in this arena.

My intent is for the car to be a daily driver street monster.

shortyq

The RS2 injectors will support 300whp without a problem, and the Stage III (vmap or 3bar RS2 setup) will get you there with the stock 3B motronic ECU>chip only.

Since the MAF>Injector sizing is critical in motronic, I don't see 700cc injectors on the motronic working at all. Not a WOT problem, an idle problem.

It's pretty well documented what you can do/available with Motronic, and the realistic crossover point to standalone is 350-400hp whp. IME, after that, standalone is better bang for buck.

If you are looking to do the least amount of fiddling, the VEMS unit is probably your best bet.

HTH and my .02

Scott J
84 Urq AAN20vt project VEMS

5000Q86

with the more aggressive cams a higher idle setting will be needed to keep the engine running smooth, and with the management unit installed, duty cycle can be turned down and adjusted depending on rpm.

if your just looking for basic street use for now, then yeah go with a chip and the RS2 injectors.

In a nutshell, the more you upgrade the components of the engine, it can get harder to tune them all to work in sync unless you have control over each setting.

IMHO, its not horsepower rating that determines weather or not you should use a standalone, its how well you want each component to work with others. the strongest man in the world cant lift anything if he doesnt have a brain to control and coordinate his muscles. the factory computer can handle the different inputs, but after a certain point wont be able to effectively translate them into more power/torque.

quattro_rocks

I'm running it on my S6 gt30R and it's great

shortyq

As a rule in the A/F tables MAF corresponds to injector sizing. The RS2 injector works well up to 350WHP or so with the stock 20vt MAF. The stock 20vt MAF will suck the innerds thru the housing at ~440hp.

300-350whp defines a RS2 injector and a stock 20vt MAF. Beyond that, you either custom program, eliminate, upgrade and/or replace the MAF/injectors. The urs car boys have documented this well.

VEMS and 034 has the ability to tune the programming tables far beyond the motronic capabilities. Which means that 600 and 700 cc injectors are fully capable of being supported in the software.

All this is premature to the project in the OP. Motorgeek and the urs4 forums have put down dyno runs etc with motronic and the standalones. My personal preference after intense exposure to Motronic, 034 and VEMS is that the VEMS unit has the least compromises to getting massive power IMO. Price the SQ MAF required to go big on the Motronic, the other choices become more obvious.

Scott J

nuugen

If you want to do a painless standalone this is the way to go, it is basically a plug-and-play..
If you want chip tuning there are plenty out there, I know Ben Swann sells some sweet software and we have used them on several customer cars..<ul><li><a href="http://www.efiexpress.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=1&amp;products_id=1">VEMS</a></li></ul>

shortyq

BTDT - acquired the VEMS mystelf, and he recommends 60lb to start

quattro_rocks

Dave Hartnell in Vancouver BC (Fire and Fuel) is quite good at tuning.
My car put down 259WHP on 15.5 PSI, with a lot of head work and other mods to it.
The nice thing with VEMS is that you can keep tuning it, and there is always someone nearby that can tune it.