Engine mounts
09-05-2007, 07:42 AM
#1
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Engine mounts
I am planning on doing tranny mounts myself (an hour job last time I did them with ramps, a floor jack and a board), but am looking for any BTDT advice regarding doing engine mounts. How does it compare to replacing tranny mounts and would I be better off taking it to my shop and just let them do both at the same time? Review of the archives looks like it is a PITA to do engine mounts. My shop quoted me $150 to do them all.
Thanks in advance.....
Thanks in advance.....
09-05-2007, 08:56 AM
#2
AudiWorld Super User
Since they are similiar to the 4kq
Im gonna say that they are pretty easy. Granted, I had the motor out when I pulled them, but still. The drivers side is in plain view and IMHO is very easy. The pass side is kinda tough I found (on my car) to get a socket on.
Overall Id say the motor mounts are a fairly simple job IF the space in the 5000 is similiar to the 4000.
Also, the mounts I got were different, they look like enlarged transmission mounts, supposedly better than the OEM ones used back when the cars were new.
Overall Id say the motor mounts are a fairly simple job IF the space in the 5000 is similiar to the 4000.
Also, the mounts I got were different, they look like enlarged transmission mounts, supposedly better than the OEM ones used back when the cars were new.
09-05-2007, 01:15 PM
#4
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Re: Engine mounts
we just did motor mounts on my 5000 while we had the block out.. you can do the tranny and motor in two or three solid days probably if you have that kind of motivation and time.. if you got the cash it might be easier to just go to the shop.. its definately not an enjoyable task really.
btw. after searching and lots of calls, and lack of time i was allowed to be in my friend's garage, i just sprung for the local set of new oem b3 audi 90 motor mounts. although the part numbers are different, we compared a lot of pictures and they bolted up perfect.
btw. after searching and lots of calls, and lack of time i was allowed to be in my friend's garage, i just sprung for the local set of new oem b3 audi 90 motor mounts. although the part numbers are different, we compared a lot of pictures and they bolted up perfect.
09-06-2007, 08:56 AM
#5
Do you live in the rust belt?
I'd leap at $150. Just make sure you are there with a big cup of coffee watching. I have found that a cheap shop brings you in and then, while wrenching on cars they know little to nothing about, tend to break stuff. This pushes the bill up.
I'm putting a set of the new track series motor and tranny mounts in from 034 when I do my motor swap. And when is that? Soon I hope. My pistons finally came in and the whole lot was sent for balancing and polishing. The rods were shot peened too for added strength.
I'm putting a set of the new track series motor and tranny mounts in from 034 when I do my motor swap. And when is that? Soon I hope. My pistons finally came in and the whole lot was sent for balancing and polishing. The rods were shot peened too for added strength.
09-09-2007, 04:26 PM
#6
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Just did mine this weekend. A little from me and others (LONG)
I did a forum search and found a nice collection of postings that was put together, I've attached it below. At the very least it gave me the confidence to do it myself.
I did mine over two days. The driver side took me about 4 hours one day, and the passenger was about 3, maybe less. I am certain I could cut these times in half now that I've done it once. I was taking it very slow and careful to make sure I did nothing stupid, and I was also short a couple tools so I had to bike over to the auto-parts store a couple times.
Tools I used were:
15mm Socket and Open-end
17mm socket
A variety of different extensions for the socket
Floor jack/Jack stands
I did the mounts one at a time. I jacked up the engine a little bit, in a safe spot, close to the mount, with a small piece of 2x4 between the floor jack and the engine to prevent the engine from taking all the stress. Then I took off the bottom two 15mm nuts, and proceeded to slowly jack up the engine a little more to allow room to install the new mount. I went slow and careful, checking occasionally to ensure nothing was breaking or dangerous.
Below it says undo the upper nut first, but if the cup is separated, it would be almost impossible to undo fully. So I jacked up the engine a little bit first, undid the lower nuts (cup falls out making it easier to reach the spindle), then undid the upper nut. The cups were separated on each mount, and the top nut was spinning the mount spindle, but I was able to reach under and hold the spindle with one hand and unscrew with the other. Everyone below said vice grips were necessary but somehow I managed without. Wrestled in the new mounts, hand-tightened the lower nuts, tightened the top nut, and fully tightened the lower nuts before lowering the engine.
I think in the postings the passenger side mount is quoted as the most difficult but I found it the other way around. The driver side mount is surrounded by a maze of brake/hydraulic lines, and naturally, the new mount doesn't simply "slide right in". I wound up taking off the mount for the black unit almost under the driver side mount and that gave me a little more room to push the new mount in there.
As for the passenger side mount, the hardest part was taking out the heat shield around the mount, as mentioned below. Getting it back in isn't so hard because as you're pulling it out, it bends a little. Make sure you have 15mm open-end for this mount because there's no way to get a socket on the lower two nuts. Also, the top nut is a 17mm, and while a regular socket works, I think a deep socket would work better if it fits, for reasons which are too hard to explain.
The difference is quite noticeable and I think doing it yourself makes it that much better, but it's a matter of opportunity cost. If you have something better to do during the time that is "worth" more than $150, you might as well have someone else do it.
Here's the posting I found and used:
undid the top bolt with the engine wieght on still on it after soaking the nut in WD40 for a few a day or so... then supported the engine and when I undid the lower bolts, the mount fell into my hand.
1990 200 TQ Avant Pearl/black - 155,000 miles
Replacing Motor & Trans Mounts (very long)
Posted by: 200q20vq on 2005-02-16 09:14:03
Account #: 80445
Need to replace my engine & transmission mounts next Saturday - 200q20vt 150k mi.
After searching all links I know of (audiworld.com, audifans.com,
quattro123.com, members.aol.com/c1j1miller/,
comcast.net/~gregsj2/content/audi200., sjmautotechnik.com/) below is what
I've come up w/on this DIY project I would like to tackle to save some
significant money. Any additional information appreciated (photos/BTDT's/what to look out for/special rachet to get to driver's side mount/etc.).
Have floor jacks, jack stands, floor ramps, both bently's, & necessary tools to do this (home garage no hoists or lifts) -
just unsure on the order/best/easiest way to do both engine & trans mounts in one day. Any
torque spec.s also greatly appreciated.
Replacing Motor & Transmission Mounts:
Checking/replacing motor mounts on 5ktq/200tq
Checking it is pretty easy actually, replacing it can be a major PITA. Jack up
car. Remove the 2 10mm nuts (15mm wrench) on the right side motor mount. A good
motor mount will stay attached to the engine wing, a bad motor mount cup will
fall into your hand. If you haven't done one in the last couple years, chances
are it's bad. It is the main cause of broken EM studs and leaking #1 EM.
To replace on a turbo car. Remove the top of the airbox (might as well change
the filter now). There are 3 phillips screws that hold the front lower heat
shield between the turbo and motor mount. Soak them with PB blaster... I use a
impact driver on them, but a good long #2 phillips will do the job. Wrestle that
heat shield out (PITA, it goes out and comes in only one way). Now you are
looking at the top of the motor mount. If you lost the lower cup, you will need
to lock it with vice grips as you turn the top nut with 17mm socket.
Install reverse of removal. To raise the engine, put a wood block on the oil pan
and raise the engine so you can tighten the new mount down. For only 3 attaching
points, it's not a fun job. Many times I've had to cut them off.
HTH
Scott Justusson
Reply to Replacing Mounts:
doing the motor mount was a big pain in the butt. I jacked up the front of the
motor using my car jack and some boards to make it a little higher. Then in
order to get it to fit I had to have 3 people (litterally) standing on my bumper
to lower the car while keeping the motor up to fit the mount in. Then, I still
couldn't get the top bolt on tight...there's just nowhere to get a
wrench/ratchet in there so it's hand tight for now. I expect the driver's side
will be a little easier.
Anyway, it sucked. Tranny mounts took like an hour and a half, but doing the one
motor mount took me 5 hours and I'm exhausted.
Its two pressed in bolts w/nuts on the chassis side, and 1 bolt holds the mount
to the support arm. I had to vise-grip one of the pressed-in bolts to keep it
from spinning.
Cro is right, remove the airbox stuff, and try to find a hoist, or use a very
well placed jack.
Oh, if you put a wrench on the bolt that holds the mount to the support and it
just spins, you'll have to pull the support off the engine to seperate the two.
I think it would be a piece of cake with a hoist to support the engine weight. I
also think it could be done with a floor jack appropriately placed without
bending something and only do one side at a time. The hoist would be the way to
go. If you remove the air filter housing you can get at the turbo side mount
fairly easily. I am about to launch a total front end bushing replacement
project and was thinking about doing both the engine mounts and rear tranny
mount while I am in there.
Changing Motor Mounts
1. Car on ramps.
2. Put a jack/stand on the motor as close to the mount as possible. If you
can't, you can use a 2X4 from above with chain/rope (this keeps the
motor from stressing the opposite mount during swap, and keeps mount
close to frame rail to put on 15mm nuts).
3. Remove upper mount nut (19mm I think) may want to soak it a couple of
days with WD-40, it tends to catch water by design. The problem is, if
the mount is spinning in the cup, you might have some time getting nut
off.
4. Remove lower mount nuts (2X15mm). The engine is now resting on jack or
hanging on rope and the trans mount only.
5. Pull mount down and out.
6. Install new mount from below, 15mm nuts on first.
7. Install top nuts, torque to spec.
8. Remove 2X4/jacks.
9. Off ramps.
Transmission Mounts - REPLACEMENT:
On high mileage vehicles, over 120-150k miles, You need to support the rear end
of the transmission with a jack stand, and then remove the bolts for the
rear/side transmission mounts. There is a small heat shield on the passenger
side trans mount that needs to be removed to gain access to the trans mount bolt
on that side. This heat shield is held on with three screws (8mm head size).
After removing the rear trans mounts (two 13mm hex head bolts/nuts) - replace
w/new and reverse process.
I did mine over two days. The driver side took me about 4 hours one day, and the passenger was about 3, maybe less. I am certain I could cut these times in half now that I've done it once. I was taking it very slow and careful to make sure I did nothing stupid, and I was also short a couple tools so I had to bike over to the auto-parts store a couple times.
Tools I used were:
15mm Socket and Open-end
17mm socket
A variety of different extensions for the socket
Floor jack/Jack stands
I did the mounts one at a time. I jacked up the engine a little bit, in a safe spot, close to the mount, with a small piece of 2x4 between the floor jack and the engine to prevent the engine from taking all the stress. Then I took off the bottom two 15mm nuts, and proceeded to slowly jack up the engine a little more to allow room to install the new mount. I went slow and careful, checking occasionally to ensure nothing was breaking or dangerous.
Below it says undo the upper nut first, but if the cup is separated, it would be almost impossible to undo fully. So I jacked up the engine a little bit first, undid the lower nuts (cup falls out making it easier to reach the spindle), then undid the upper nut. The cups were separated on each mount, and the top nut was spinning the mount spindle, but I was able to reach under and hold the spindle with one hand and unscrew with the other. Everyone below said vice grips were necessary but somehow I managed without. Wrestled in the new mounts, hand-tightened the lower nuts, tightened the top nut, and fully tightened the lower nuts before lowering the engine.
I think in the postings the passenger side mount is quoted as the most difficult but I found it the other way around. The driver side mount is surrounded by a maze of brake/hydraulic lines, and naturally, the new mount doesn't simply "slide right in". I wound up taking off the mount for the black unit almost under the driver side mount and that gave me a little more room to push the new mount in there.
As for the passenger side mount, the hardest part was taking out the heat shield around the mount, as mentioned below. Getting it back in isn't so hard because as you're pulling it out, it bends a little. Make sure you have 15mm open-end for this mount because there's no way to get a socket on the lower two nuts. Also, the top nut is a 17mm, and while a regular socket works, I think a deep socket would work better if it fits, for reasons which are too hard to explain.
The difference is quite noticeable and I think doing it yourself makes it that much better, but it's a matter of opportunity cost. If you have something better to do during the time that is "worth" more than $150, you might as well have someone else do it.
Here's the posting I found and used:
undid the top bolt with the engine wieght on still on it after soaking the nut in WD40 for a few a day or so... then supported the engine and when I undid the lower bolts, the mount fell into my hand.
1990 200 TQ Avant Pearl/black - 155,000 miles
Replacing Motor & Trans Mounts (very long)
Posted by: 200q20vq on 2005-02-16 09:14:03
Account #: 80445
Need to replace my engine & transmission mounts next Saturday - 200q20vt 150k mi.
After searching all links I know of (audiworld.com, audifans.com,
quattro123.com, members.aol.com/c1j1miller/,
comcast.net/~gregsj2/content/audi200., sjmautotechnik.com/) below is what
I've come up w/on this DIY project I would like to tackle to save some
significant money. Any additional information appreciated (photos/BTDT's/what to look out for/special rachet to get to driver's side mount/etc.).
Have floor jacks, jack stands, floor ramps, both bently's, & necessary tools to do this (home garage no hoists or lifts) -
just unsure on the order/best/easiest way to do both engine & trans mounts in one day. Any
torque spec.s also greatly appreciated.
Replacing Motor & Transmission Mounts:
Checking/replacing motor mounts on 5ktq/200tq
Checking it is pretty easy actually, replacing it can be a major PITA. Jack up
car. Remove the 2 10mm nuts (15mm wrench) on the right side motor mount. A good
motor mount will stay attached to the engine wing, a bad motor mount cup will
fall into your hand. If you haven't done one in the last couple years, chances
are it's bad. It is the main cause of broken EM studs and leaking #1 EM.
To replace on a turbo car. Remove the top of the airbox (might as well change
the filter now). There are 3 phillips screws that hold the front lower heat
shield between the turbo and motor mount. Soak them with PB blaster... I use a
impact driver on them, but a good long #2 phillips will do the job. Wrestle that
heat shield out (PITA, it goes out and comes in only one way). Now you are
looking at the top of the motor mount. If you lost the lower cup, you will need
to lock it with vice grips as you turn the top nut with 17mm socket.
Install reverse of removal. To raise the engine, put a wood block on the oil pan
and raise the engine so you can tighten the new mount down. For only 3 attaching
points, it's not a fun job. Many times I've had to cut them off.
HTH
Scott Justusson
Reply to Replacing Mounts:
doing the motor mount was a big pain in the butt. I jacked up the front of the
motor using my car jack and some boards to make it a little higher. Then in
order to get it to fit I had to have 3 people (litterally) standing on my bumper
to lower the car while keeping the motor up to fit the mount in. Then, I still
couldn't get the top bolt on tight...there's just nowhere to get a
wrench/ratchet in there so it's hand tight for now. I expect the driver's side
will be a little easier.
Anyway, it sucked. Tranny mounts took like an hour and a half, but doing the one
motor mount took me 5 hours and I'm exhausted.
Its two pressed in bolts w/nuts on the chassis side, and 1 bolt holds the mount
to the support arm. I had to vise-grip one of the pressed-in bolts to keep it
from spinning.
Cro is right, remove the airbox stuff, and try to find a hoist, or use a very
well placed jack.
Oh, if you put a wrench on the bolt that holds the mount to the support and it
just spins, you'll have to pull the support off the engine to seperate the two.
I think it would be a piece of cake with a hoist to support the engine weight. I
also think it could be done with a floor jack appropriately placed without
bending something and only do one side at a time. The hoist would be the way to
go. If you remove the air filter housing you can get at the turbo side mount
fairly easily. I am about to launch a total front end bushing replacement
project and was thinking about doing both the engine mounts and rear tranny
mount while I am in there.
Changing Motor Mounts
1. Car on ramps.
2. Put a jack/stand on the motor as close to the mount as possible. If you
can't, you can use a 2X4 from above with chain/rope (this keeps the
motor from stressing the opposite mount during swap, and keeps mount
close to frame rail to put on 15mm nuts).
3. Remove upper mount nut (19mm I think) may want to soak it a couple of
days with WD-40, it tends to catch water by design. The problem is, if
the mount is spinning in the cup, you might have some time getting nut
off.
4. Remove lower mount nuts (2X15mm). The engine is now resting on jack or
hanging on rope and the trans mount only.
5. Pull mount down and out.
6. Install new mount from below, 15mm nuts on first.
7. Install top nuts, torque to spec.
8. Remove 2X4/jacks.
9. Off ramps.
Transmission Mounts - REPLACEMENT:
On high mileage vehicles, over 120-150k miles, You need to support the rear end
of the transmission with a jack stand, and then remove the bolts for the
rear/side transmission mounts. There is a small heat shield on the passenger
side trans mount that needs to be removed to gain access to the trans mount bolt
on that side. This heat shield is held on with three screws (8mm head size).
After removing the rear trans mounts (two 13mm hex head bolts/nuts) - replace
w/new and reverse process.
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