Porsche Calipers mounting brackets ????
07-11-2008, 06:18 PM
#5
AudiWorld Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,140
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: RS2 brackets are what you use or
If you have G60 Strut housings the RS2 Brackets are what you need, if you have UFO's the RS2 adapters will not bolt to that housing.
Here is a copy of a old post, that will give you the info that you're looking for:
BBK Conversion:
This is what you need:
993tt "Big Reds" Calipers-
993-351-425-10 Left
993-351-426-10 Right
Rs2 Brackets-
8A0 615 125 A
Rotors (323x30) 2001 S8/A8
4D0 615 301 A or J
Caliper to bracket (x4)-
999 067 041 09
Strut to bracket (x4)-
N 100 880 03
Or you can reuse the ones you have & just cut off 10mm from the ends.
Vibration Danpers 44mm (x4)
965 351 096 00
&
36mm (x4)
964 351 096 01
Wear sensors (x2)
993 612 368 00
Wear sensor holders (x2)
928 612 361 00
Brake lines I went custom. Got Earls fittings.
The brake adaptors part #'s
989534ERL -3 to 10mm
& the caliper adaptors are
592032ERL -3 to 10mm
& brake lines
63010110 -3 st/st 10" hose
Pads is your prefrence. &
I use a Motul(sp?) brake fluid. I suppose the ATE Blue stuff is fine..but the other is better cause it's more expensive
On the adaptors....those are for straight fittings like on the Audis. I got them from Billzcat back in the day. I personally don't like the straight fittings...pain in the a$$! I want to change to the banjo bolts/swivel but have been to lazy to look.
I hear Bensco??? is cheap..usta be the ol Creseant City Porsche in Orleans. If you talk to John he'll set you up.
I personally get mine from the local dealer..or is that stealer...BS nice to have a relationship with the only honest dealer in the world I guess but
LA Porsche dismantlers has good prices on used. There all over e-bay...look around.
As far as rotors I got a set of slotted zimmermans. I do have a set of rotor hats & rings on the way. & thats the way to go. The zimmermans weigh a freaking TON!
I got the "Big Blacks" as well. There just 928GT calipers..same rotors & brackets are used with these as well. Just different part #'s for the Wear sensors, holders, calipers, & bolts.
You do have to swap over the bleeders & hard lines on each caliper so the smaller piston is the 1st to hit the rotor then the larger.
& I've heard of people shaving off 1mm from the back of the Rs bracket to have the pads sit more centered on the rotor. Cause they sit not quiet in the center of the rotor..they ride a bit. But I don't feel any diffrence.
Q. How do I upgrade the brakes on my 968.
A. DISCS for use with Big Red or Big Black type calipers (all 322mmx32mm)
965 (911-964 3.6 Turbo)
1-piece disc, cross drilled, 45mm top hat
965-351-045-00
965-351-046-00
928 GTS
1-piece disc, NON cross drilled, 45mm top hat
928-351-045-01
928-351-046-01
993 Twin Turbo
2-piece disc, cross drilled, 40mm top hat (separate disc and mounting `hat')
993-351-045-10
993-351-046-10
discs are seldom used, 993RS cheaper
993RS
1 piece disc, cross drilled, 40mm top hat
993-351-045-00
993-351-046-00
DISCS for use with M030 (928 S4) calipers (all 304mm x 32mm)
968 M030
1-piece disc, cross drilled, 45mm top hat
965-351-041-01
965-351-042-01
928 S4
1-piece disc, NON cross drilled, 45mm top hat
928-351-045-01
928-351-046-01
Discs with a `top-hat' (offset) dimension of 45mm will have an outer disc pad face in the same position as standard - the larger discs are thicker (32mm vs 28mm) therefore the inner pad face of the discs are 4mm further in (into the car). This will close the gap between the disc face and the track rod end - it has been suggested that heat build up from the disc can be a problem, but I have never heard of any actual experience of this.
Discs with a `top-hat' dimension of 40mm will have an outer disc pad face 5mm further out than standard (also pushing the caliper further out by 5mm and closer to the spokes of your wheels). The inner pad face of the discs will be -1mm further out from standard (further out of the car) and hence remains virtually the same distance from your track rod end.
NOTE: the M030 spindle/hub assembly locates the disc approximately 3mm further out to compensate for the additional thickness of the discs from standard.
CALIPERS
Big Reds (993 Twin Turbo calipers)
993-351-425-10
993-351-426-10
36mm/44mm piston sizes
Leading, radial mounting, bleeder screws & cross-over tubes require swapping over for trailing mounting. Pad retention springs will be upside-down. Red in colour.
Big Blacks (928GTS calipers)
928-351-423-03
928-351-424-03
36mm/44mm piston sizes
Trailing, radial mounting, bleeder screws & cross-over tubes in correct position. Pad retention springs in correct orientation. Black in colour.
M030 calipers (928 S4 calipers) (also used on 944 S2 M030, 944 Turbo S)
928-351-421-03
928-351-422-03
36mm/44mm piston sizes
Trailing, radial mounting, bleeder screws & cross-over tubes in correct position. Pad retention springs in correct orientation. Black in colour. Note: depending what year car these are from, the piston seal/dust seal design can differ. The older design is less robust/efficient. The later design is the same as that used on the Big Reds/Big Blacks. For these you can either use the standard 968 M030 dross drilled discs or the 928 S4 NON cross drilled discs. Both are the same size and offset.
CALIPER ADAPTORS
Adaptors will be required to fit any of the M030, Big Reds or Big Blacks to a standard 968 spindle. Adaptors are usually universal - in that if you rotate them they will allow fitment of any offset disc noted above with appropriate caliper. The caliper mounting hole in the adaptor is usually offset by 5mm from one edge of the adaptor compared to the other to make up the difference in disc `top-hat' offset.
Note: some adpators are actually dimensionally `off' - that is, they offset the caliper incorrectly so that the disc does not sit centrally in the gap of the caliper where the disc sits (maybe by 1 or 2mm). Also they may not sit the caliper - and hence pad - correctly on the disc pad face (distance from the edge of the disc to the centre of the disc). My adpators were as this and required some machining and shims! (shims are ok - since the rear calipers mount using shims as standard to centralise them on the discs)
For cars with M030 - why on earth you would want to change your calipers to Big Red / Big Black's I don't know - but if you do, adaptors are NOT required, but you would be limited to the 45mm offset 322mm discs.
For my upgrade I used Big Reds with 993RS discs (about the cheapest holy discs + 1-piece), also preferred the offset pushing the caliper further out. IMHO, bought as new, Big Reds + discs are only required if the cost outweighs the cost of buying used S4 caliper + a refurb + new S4 discs. Big Reds give TOO MUCH braking power, and I have not come across any tyres (standard 17" wheels) that do not lose traction when braking hard. This is why I now have 18" wheels with 235
HTH
-Scott
Here is a copy of a old post, that will give you the info that you're looking for:
BBK Conversion:
This is what you need:
993tt "Big Reds" Calipers-
993-351-425-10 Left
993-351-426-10 Right
Rs2 Brackets-
8A0 615 125 A
Rotors (323x30) 2001 S8/A8
4D0 615 301 A or J
Caliper to bracket (x4)-
999 067 041 09
Strut to bracket (x4)-
N 100 880 03
Or you can reuse the ones you have & just cut off 10mm from the ends.
Vibration Danpers 44mm (x4)
965 351 096 00
&
36mm (x4)
964 351 096 01
Wear sensors (x2)
993 612 368 00
Wear sensor holders (x2)
928 612 361 00
Brake lines I went custom. Got Earls fittings.
The brake adaptors part #'s
989534ERL -3 to 10mm
& the caliper adaptors are
592032ERL -3 to 10mm
& brake lines
63010110 -3 st/st 10" hose
Pads is your prefrence. &
I use a Motul(sp?) brake fluid. I suppose the ATE Blue stuff is fine..but the other is better cause it's more expensive
On the adaptors....those are for straight fittings like on the Audis. I got them from Billzcat back in the day. I personally don't like the straight fittings...pain in the a$$! I want to change to the banjo bolts/swivel but have been to lazy to look.
I hear Bensco??? is cheap..usta be the ol Creseant City Porsche in Orleans. If you talk to John he'll set you up.
I personally get mine from the local dealer..or is that stealer...BS nice to have a relationship with the only honest dealer in the world I guess but
LA Porsche dismantlers has good prices on used. There all over e-bay...look around.
As far as rotors I got a set of slotted zimmermans. I do have a set of rotor hats & rings on the way. & thats the way to go. The zimmermans weigh a freaking TON!
I got the "Big Blacks" as well. There just 928GT calipers..same rotors & brackets are used with these as well. Just different part #'s for the Wear sensors, holders, calipers, & bolts.
You do have to swap over the bleeders & hard lines on each caliper so the smaller piston is the 1st to hit the rotor then the larger.
& I've heard of people shaving off 1mm from the back of the Rs bracket to have the pads sit more centered on the rotor. Cause they sit not quiet in the center of the rotor..they ride a bit. But I don't feel any diffrence.
Q. How do I upgrade the brakes on my 968.
A. DISCS for use with Big Red or Big Black type calipers (all 322mmx32mm)
965 (911-964 3.6 Turbo)
1-piece disc, cross drilled, 45mm top hat
965-351-045-00
965-351-046-00
928 GTS
1-piece disc, NON cross drilled, 45mm top hat
928-351-045-01
928-351-046-01
993 Twin Turbo
2-piece disc, cross drilled, 40mm top hat (separate disc and mounting `hat')
993-351-045-10
993-351-046-10
discs are seldom used, 993RS cheaper
993RS
1 piece disc, cross drilled, 40mm top hat
993-351-045-00
993-351-046-00
DISCS for use with M030 (928 S4) calipers (all 304mm x 32mm)
968 M030
1-piece disc, cross drilled, 45mm top hat
965-351-041-01
965-351-042-01
928 S4
1-piece disc, NON cross drilled, 45mm top hat
928-351-045-01
928-351-046-01
Discs with a `top-hat' (offset) dimension of 45mm will have an outer disc pad face in the same position as standard - the larger discs are thicker (32mm vs 28mm) therefore the inner pad face of the discs are 4mm further in (into the car). This will close the gap between the disc face and the track rod end - it has been suggested that heat build up from the disc can be a problem, but I have never heard of any actual experience of this.
Discs with a `top-hat' dimension of 40mm will have an outer disc pad face 5mm further out than standard (also pushing the caliper further out by 5mm and closer to the spokes of your wheels). The inner pad face of the discs will be -1mm further out from standard (further out of the car) and hence remains virtually the same distance from your track rod end.
NOTE: the M030 spindle/hub assembly locates the disc approximately 3mm further out to compensate for the additional thickness of the discs from standard.
CALIPERS
Big Reds (993 Twin Turbo calipers)
993-351-425-10
993-351-426-10
36mm/44mm piston sizes
Leading, radial mounting, bleeder screws & cross-over tubes require swapping over for trailing mounting. Pad retention springs will be upside-down. Red in colour.
Big Blacks (928GTS calipers)
928-351-423-03
928-351-424-03
36mm/44mm piston sizes
Trailing, radial mounting, bleeder screws & cross-over tubes in correct position. Pad retention springs in correct orientation. Black in colour.
M030 calipers (928 S4 calipers) (also used on 944 S2 M030, 944 Turbo S)
928-351-421-03
928-351-422-03
36mm/44mm piston sizes
Trailing, radial mounting, bleeder screws & cross-over tubes in correct position. Pad retention springs in correct orientation. Black in colour. Note: depending what year car these are from, the piston seal/dust seal design can differ. The older design is less robust/efficient. The later design is the same as that used on the Big Reds/Big Blacks. For these you can either use the standard 968 M030 dross drilled discs or the 928 S4 NON cross drilled discs. Both are the same size and offset.
CALIPER ADAPTORS
Adaptors will be required to fit any of the M030, Big Reds or Big Blacks to a standard 968 spindle. Adaptors are usually universal - in that if you rotate them they will allow fitment of any offset disc noted above with appropriate caliper. The caliper mounting hole in the adaptor is usually offset by 5mm from one edge of the adaptor compared to the other to make up the difference in disc `top-hat' offset.
Note: some adpators are actually dimensionally `off' - that is, they offset the caliper incorrectly so that the disc does not sit centrally in the gap of the caliper where the disc sits (maybe by 1 or 2mm). Also they may not sit the caliper - and hence pad - correctly on the disc pad face (distance from the edge of the disc to the centre of the disc). My adpators were as this and required some machining and shims! (shims are ok - since the rear calipers mount using shims as standard to centralise them on the discs)
For cars with M030 - why on earth you would want to change your calipers to Big Red / Big Black's I don't know - but if you do, adaptors are NOT required, but you would be limited to the 45mm offset 322mm discs.
For my upgrade I used Big Reds with 993RS discs (about the cheapest holy discs + 1-piece), also preferred the offset pushing the caliper further out. IMHO, bought as new, Big Reds + discs are only required if the cost outweighs the cost of buying used S4 caliper + a refurb + new S4 discs. Big Reds give TOO MUCH braking power, and I have not come across any tyres (standard 17" wheels) that do not lose traction when braking hard. This is why I now have 18" wheels with 235
HTH
-Scott
Trending Topics
07-12-2008, 07:11 PM
#8
AudiWorld Super User
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,097
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Some of that old post looks familiar Scott ;-)
But I suppose I've talked about this subject a lot. & thank GOD you (Scott) posted about all there is to say on the subject.
11-05-2009, 09:17 AM
#10
AudiWorld Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,140
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Talk about bringing this back from the dead..
"Yes" you can use the same rear calipers, but you need to get the rear carriers from a 2000 S8 - specifically the S8 and the matching S8 rear rotor.
It's a lot of $$ for only a 11MM gain in diameter. In addition you'll need 4 3mm washers to space the carrier off the hub to correct a clearence issue.
You get the idea from here: http://homepage.mac.com/nugentp/PhotoAlbum16.html
"Yes" you can use the same rear calipers, but you need to get the rear carriers from a 2000 S8 - specifically the S8 and the matching S8 rear rotor.
It's a lot of $$ for only a 11MM gain in diameter. In addition you'll need 4 3mm washers to space the carrier off the hub to correct a clearence issue.
You get the idea from here: http://homepage.mac.com/nugentp/PhotoAlbum16.html