cenji

I would appreciate if you'd share your experience, advice and let's call it guidance with answers to questions listed below.

Your response will help me to decide if I shall stick to driving BMW's (like 528 ti wagon) or switch to Audi where I have less knowledge. I have heard good things about these cars, longevity, performance, functional+ versatile.

My knowledge is very limited, just started reading up on it. Mostly based on what you find in certain ads( if there is a good description).

MISSION:
Maybe I am totally off with the price, but I am willing to spend $5000. Can you find a stock car, that is in excellent mechanical condition for that price? I don't care so much about a few dents or scratches, any super high powers, performance chips, lowered, special steering wheels,.... It just has to do the job, get family +pets safely from a to b.

QUESTIONS:
Are there certain years that are better or more desired than others?
Has anyone priced the difference for maintaining a 10 V versus 20 V?
Since I am planning to keep it for next ten years , what can one calculate in annual cost to keep the car in its excellent mechanical shape?

Shall one stay away from a 200K mile car or how long last those engines if well maintained?

What are typical signs or problems with these cars that require more funds than expected? I read that timing-belts are crucial and require extensive labor?

I am 140 miles east of Bay Area, could you recommend great mechanics that are still working on these older cars?

Are there certain models 5K,10V, where parts didn't change within it the models production-time and can therefore be easily exchanged, making it more cost efficient more readily available?

I know only of Audifans, audiworld and craigslist as websites with classifieds. Are there any other websites you could share?

LOOKING FORWARD TO YOUR FEEDBACK, it is appreciated.

pgutier1

There is a lot out there...you just have to look and be patient. For $5K...should be in great condition w/mods...IMO

Paul

centaurus3200

3B (engine) all the way baby!

$5k might be a little on the low side given the rarity of the 20V avant, but shouldn't cost too much more to get one. maybe $6,000-$6500 or so for a good one.

you won't regret it. 280HP with an intended acceleration stage 3+ ecu and you'll be eatin' mustang GTs all day long - in a wagon ;-)

see ya,
Robby

pgutier1

1) Experience - I have owned several Audi's over the past several years, which I have completely enjoyed the experience I have had with these wonderful vehicles.

I came from owning several Datsun 240z being single with no kids to one day owning my first 4KQ. I could not believe the way it handled...it was quick, handled most incredibly in any weather you threw at it!!! My wife enjoyed driving this car instead of the larger 5KQT...except for my '87 speed demon which I have now!

We on this forum will all vouch for the integrity of these vehicles. As to why we all love this automobile whether it be a 5000 10v, 200 20v or a V8. Best bang for the buck ever!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I will personally have an Audi in my family forever! The new cars...yes are snazzy but once you drive and comprehend the drivability, comfort and the potential of the older cars...they just kick *** of the new.

2) Knowledge - if you know the basics of working on cars, in time this car will become second nature. I'm no expert nor technician...and I find a peace when I can take care of one of my vehicles especially my Audi's. Also this forum has being a GOD send as to the knowledge we all have and share with!!!! This by far is the most impressive feature of owning an "Old School Audi."

3) Stock vs. Modded - From owning several different Audi's...a modded, well maintained Audi is WAY MORE FUN to have than a stocker! Why buy one stock than one who has already spent more to improve them. Things to get IMO would be
a) Euro lights - relayed
b) Chipped ECU
c) Wastegate spring
d) Larger correctly sized wheels and tires
e) Sport Suspension
f) Sport clutch
g) Wheel stud kit...makes a huge difference when doing a wheel change.
h) Make sure all engine hoses have been inspected

And the list goes on!

Start Here:
http://www.sjmautotechnik.com/trouble_shooting/boost.html

4) Years - As far as the 5K, I prefer the '88 because of the difference of rear tail lights inside wiring and trunk lid. They are just harder to find than '87. For the 200 model, get the 91 20v...this would be the only one I would get whether sedan or Avant. The 100's are just plain jane...I wouldn't waste money on these.

I don't have experience for maintenance for 20v's (should be the same) although the 10v's I have plenty. Simply...fix it before it breaks and spent the money for the upgrades and don't be a cheap! From going back to my records for my '87 w/mods...be prepared to spend $2K/yr for excellent maintenance.

5) 200K miles is nothing for these cars...the bottom end of these engines are bullet proof. Just don't be stupid and run 20psi or more on a stock engine without proper mods. My highest mileage car was well over 350K with no major engine work before it was totaled in an accident. I would never hesitate buying an Audi with these types of mileage...just ask for records of what has been done.

6) Do a timing job - 5K's should be around $700-$900 depending on the mechanic. This is most important since it is an interference engine. Which means: timing belt breaks...things mess up BIG! Also clutches are pricey...my last clutch job was $2100 with the Spec clutch and Aluminum flywheel, stock should be a $1k less. Done right, should be a long time before the next one. CV boots should be done ASAP as well if torn.

7) Mechanic - I have only chosen shops that don't say "What is that"...J/K
034Motorsport is first choice - Fremont, CA
MM Auto Werkes is second choice - Campbell, Ca
140 miles East of Bay Area...can you please be more specific and I will help you out more towards your location.

8) Interchangeable parts - so far I have put many 200 parts into my 5K. That's the cool part of Type 44 cars...lots are changeable!

9) Classifieds - You are using the ones I use...there is also:
www.cars.com
www.autotrader.com

Bottom line...once you drive and own an Audi, you will never drive anything else again! Well maybe a McLaren F1!!!

Hope this helps!!!

Paul

boxerfan

I'd only add to reponse #4 because he did say he's not that interested in performance.

The non-turbo quattro models (almost always a 100 Quattro) are well down on power as compared to the turbocharged models. This in turn means that all the drivetrain components tend to get treated much more gently. The trick is finding one. Also, the quattro models mean you will have a 5-speed trnasmission, and they are bulletproof!

I owned a 1990 FWD 200 for a couple of weeks. It had 495,000 kms on it and was still running strong. I fixed a no-start issue (sensor) and sold it off again. Besides... Audi without Quattro is like beer without alcohol.

I would suggest that you test pilot a few different cars to see what turns your crank. Start with a non-turbo car and work your way up through stock models, 100 FWD, 100Q, 5ktq/200TQ, to a 1991 200 TQ. Then take a seat in a modded car. First a 10VT then a 20VT. You will truly be amazed at the power these cars can develop.

cenji

Thank you very much for your detailed information.

I will have to do my homework and address the new things that I have read in your summary.

The message is clear: Get a 91, 200, quattra, 20V. Since we have pets, it will be an avant.

You mentioned to consider a few upgrades.

You referred to different lights = euro-lights, relayed =are the stock lights that insufficient or bad?
What is a waste-gate spring?
Chipped ECU, I assume that means more horsepower, if so how much? Are there various chips to choose from? I guess one can do this down the line.

From the ones that you listed, I would be interested to find out how much it would cost to have Euro Lights. This seems to be a safety plus.
For the completeness, how much are the expenses for the other upgrades, Chip, Waste Gate Spring and Wheel stud kit = or how much shall I dedicate in funds to these upgrades when making an offer for a car with and without the upgrades.

I live 45 min's south-east of Jackson, on Hwy 26, close to West Point.

Your advice has been helpful and is appreciated.

Katman

Whatever old Audi you get..

*Always* Be prepared for some ongoing maintenance on it. They *are* getting in the ~20 year old range!

Don't kid yourself that a car that old in good shape won't ever need anything fixed. Even 'well maintained' cars this old have things that can go wrong.

Don't let the fact that they *do* need occasional maintenenace be a deal breaker, but do keep that it in mind.

Either be a person that likes to 'mess around' figuring out things, or have a competent shop that *can* fix them lined up.

cenji

Makes all sense.
I have estimated to spend $1ooo/year on maintenace, repair, replacements to maintain the condition of a car purchased in mechanically excellent shape.

Kneale Brownson

Be aware there were under 200 1991 20-valve avants brought to the US of A, so you're kind of picking from slim availability. And lots of parts unique to avants are NLA now.

Eurolights are an absolute necessity, as is relaying the headlights even if non-Euro. The DOT headlights are about the worst headlights I've ever seen on a car in more than 50 years of driving. You can find non-turbo Eurolights for around $3-400 a set. All you need to install them on a turbo car is a nonturbo grille insert, or you can hacksaw the existing grille. One alternative is to use a V8 hood. I've done both the V8 hood and the hacked grille. Turbo headlights are less common and generally more expensive.

You want to be careful about chipping: Research the supplier. There are some pretty poor chippers out there. Some of the good chipping services result in both more HP, quicker spooling up of the turbo, and, in some cases, improved fuel use.

I don't see the need for wheel stud kits. I switch between summer and winter tires on at least four Audis every fall and spring. Maybe if you're going to track the vehicle it would make some sense.

Slightly overpriced, but in your "neighborhood": <a href="http://www.audifans.com/marketplace/show.php?table=pm_audifans_Cars&id=3777">THIS ONE</a>

cenji

Well, so you are pointing into the direction of getting the best possible specimen out there cosmetically and mechanically. SO I can pay attention to the parts that are NLA, it would help what specific parts I should keep my eyes open for. Please be so kind and list them, especially the more expensive once.

SO who are the good chippers? Who makes them, which one is the best value, most performance + the least expensive?

Still makes me wonder how such a superlative car can come with such bad lights? Especially if one considers the countries weather it comes from and some of its use in the mountains with severe conditions like USA.

I have to admit , I am very impressed with the willingness of people to guide a nubi.It is appreciated.