10vT vs 20vT; Turbo vs SC - long reading.... : )
12-21-2002, 09:55 AM
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10vT vs 20vT; Turbo vs SC - long reading.... : )
I'm still getting the hang of this forum. its quite different than the Vortex style... in some ways better except I don't like that posts don't auto sort to the top when a new reply is made to it. Because of this I lose track of what I've been reading. I often don't have time to read through pages of forums to keep up on new replies...
OK sorry for the rant, my Question!
InfernoCL, you had said in an earlier post that the 10vT was like the 1.8T but more reliable.... and that a chipped 10vT can do 230hp/250ft lbs and further upgraders will put out 280hp and ?? ft lbs... good to know. I want to know the reason people would pick the 10vT over the 20vT found in the 200/urS4. Isn't that engine as easily modded? You start with 230hp already. Is it the price/availability of that engine that makes it not as popular for swaps?
And also, where can I learn more about the engine mgnt systems for I5's. Particularly the 10vT and 20vT. I understand they're CIS, for turbo apps they must be fully electric fuel distribution oposed to my Passat's 16v CIS Motronic which has mechanical fuel distribution. The reason I am asking about this all is because I have had several discusions with "The Man" from SNS tuning, a reputable VW G60 engine tuner who burns his own ECU chips. He has taken the Digifant 1 engine mgnt system found in the G60 to new levels including fuel map swapping on the fly and integrated launch control at the push of a button! Really cool stuff! To make it more interesting, Sam has stated that the Digifant 1 system could be programed to work with 5 cylinder engines. Knowing this my makes head spins with possibilities! The first thing I think is will a G-Lader, modded to flow better than stock work well with an Audi I5 engines. I'm almost certain it will with 10v's, but 20v's heads might out flow a G-Lader, even if it's modded
With my Passat I have been researching and planing to build a 2.0 16vG60; capable of 220hp+ from what I've read. I also know of a Corrado G60 owner on the Vortex who's G-Lader pushes 17psi @ 3000 RPM or something like that! I just wonder then what the I5's could do : ) I always prefer SC over tubo as I like immediate power.
Anyway thank you for your time in this lengthy post! I hope I have started in interesting discusion. Let me know what you think!
OK sorry for the rant, my Question!
InfernoCL, you had said in an earlier post that the 10vT was like the 1.8T but more reliable.... and that a chipped 10vT can do 230hp/250ft lbs and further upgraders will put out 280hp and ?? ft lbs... good to know. I want to know the reason people would pick the 10vT over the 20vT found in the 200/urS4. Isn't that engine as easily modded? You start with 230hp already. Is it the price/availability of that engine that makes it not as popular for swaps?
And also, where can I learn more about the engine mgnt systems for I5's. Particularly the 10vT and 20vT. I understand they're CIS, for turbo apps they must be fully electric fuel distribution oposed to my Passat's 16v CIS Motronic which has mechanical fuel distribution. The reason I am asking about this all is because I have had several discusions with "The Man" from SNS tuning, a reputable VW G60 engine tuner who burns his own ECU chips. He has taken the Digifant 1 engine mgnt system found in the G60 to new levels including fuel map swapping on the fly and integrated launch control at the push of a button! Really cool stuff! To make it more interesting, Sam has stated that the Digifant 1 system could be programed to work with 5 cylinder engines. Knowing this my makes head spins with possibilities! The first thing I think is will a G-Lader, modded to flow better than stock work well with an Audi I5 engines. I'm almost certain it will with 10v's, but 20v's heads might out flow a G-Lader, even if it's modded
With my Passat I have been researching and planing to build a 2.0 16vG60; capable of 220hp+ from what I've read. I also know of a Corrado G60 owner on the Vortex who's G-Lader pushes 17psi @ 3000 RPM or something like that! I just wonder then what the I5's could do : ) I always prefer SC over tubo as I like immediate power.
Anyway thank you for your time in this lengthy post! I hope I have started in interesting discusion. Let me know what you think!
12-21-2002, 11:12 AM
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See the green "tt" at the side of each thread? (edited)
That means "track thread," meaning whenever someone makes a new post to it, it will add it to the top of the forum when you come back. To undo this, when you click "tt," you can click "ut," which is untrack, which turns it back to normal.
If you want, go to your preferences (take a look at where you write posts, there is "logout" and "preferences"), and click "Default to track threads you create or followup to?"
It will track each thread that you create or post to, this is what I use. I find it very useful.
Also, many people choose the 10vt over the 20vt simply because it's cheaper. The 20vt is more expensive to buy, and put in. The 20vt has the exhaust manifold on one side, and the intake on the other, which complicates installation slightly more than the 10vt. It's pretty rare, as Audi only used it for a few years, which makes mods more expensive also. A 10vt can be fairly easily modded to the stock power of a 20vt for the price of buying a 20vt and putting it in, or less.
Here is a site that has some information on the engine management system of the turbos (more extensively than the N/A I5s). Not sure what type of information you're looking for, though, this may help.<ul><li><a href="http://www.sjmautotechnik.com/">http://www.sjmautotechnik.com/</a</li></ul>
If you want, go to your preferences (take a look at where you write posts, there is "logout" and "preferences"), and click "Default to track threads you create or followup to?"
It will track each thread that you create or post to, this is what I use. I find it very useful.
Also, many people choose the 10vt over the 20vt simply because it's cheaper. The 20vt is more expensive to buy, and put in. The 20vt has the exhaust manifold on one side, and the intake on the other, which complicates installation slightly more than the 10vt. It's pretty rare, as Audi only used it for a few years, which makes mods more expensive also. A 10vt can be fairly easily modded to the stock power of a 20vt for the price of buying a 20vt and putting it in, or less.
Here is a site that has some information on the engine management system of the turbos (more extensively than the N/A I5s). Not sure what type of information you're looking for, though, this may help.<ul><li><a href="http://www.sjmautotechnik.com/">http://www.sjmautotechnik.com/</a</li></ul>
12-21-2002, 12:03 PM
#3
10vt is CIS 20vt is EF, why people pick 10vt over 20vt?
complete 10vt with everything is really really cheap, as where 20vt is much rarer and 3x the price. also 20vt has a difference fuel system among a lot of other stuff.
how many urS4 and S6 do you think end up in junk yards?
the I5 turbos spool really fast achieving almost max tq by 2500rpm.
and with fuel upgrade from CIS limits are far better than G60.
20vt starts with more power, but come with a price and $$$$, then the limits aren't that much different. 400hp is safe to say kicks *** already.
how many urS4 and S6 do you think end up in junk yards?
the I5 turbos spool really fast achieving almost max tq by 2500rpm.
and with fuel upgrade from CIS limits are far better than G60.
20vt starts with more power, but come with a price and $$$$, then the limits aren't that much different. 400hp is safe to say kicks *** already.
12-21-2002, 12:49 PM
#4
I would go with the 20v over the 10v...
...I would not even consider a G ladder. The simple reason is power. Is there anyone on this list that is not interested in a few more ponies? I know I am.
If you put a 10v in, you will still be looking for ways to go faster. There is a ton more stuff available for the 3B and AAN motors because all the RS2 stuff fits. There are also lots of tuners interested in these engines and aftermarket stuff available. Spend the money on the 20v. Stay away from anything crazy like the G ladder. Stick with a set up that is proven, rather than trying to re-invent the wheel.
If you put a 10v in, you will still be looking for ways to go faster. There is a ton more stuff available for the 3B and AAN motors because all the RS2 stuff fits. There are also lots of tuners interested in these engines and aftermarket stuff available. Spend the money on the 20v. Stay away from anything crazy like the G ladder. Stick with a set up that is proven, rather than trying to re-invent the wheel.
12-21-2002, 09:40 PM
#6
Re: 10vT vs 20vT; Turbo vs SC - long reading.... : )
The 10vt is still mechanical fuel distribution...
Anyway, 10vt parts are cheap and plentiful, when compared to anything for the 20vt engines. There are several ways to get more hp out of the 10vt, just look at Javad Shadzi's websites to see what he and others have done.
My reason for picking the 10vt is expense, and the power levels I want easily fall within the stock 10vt's capabilities. The abundance of 10vt parts (rebuild parts) for cheap prices also helped out. Rebuilding a 20v head gets expensive, rebuilding a 10v head is a lot cheaper. 10v pistons and rings are cheaper than 20v/20vt bits, etc.
Anyway, 10vt parts are cheap and plentiful, when compared to anything for the 20vt engines. There are several ways to get more hp out of the 10vt, just look at Javad Shadzi's websites to see what he and others have done.
My reason for picking the 10vt is expense, and the power levels I want easily fall within the stock 10vt's capabilities. The abundance of 10vt parts (rebuild parts) for cheap prices also helped out. Rebuilding a 20v head gets expensive, rebuilding a 10v head is a lot cheaper. 10v pistons and rings are cheaper than 20v/20vt bits, etc.
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