Any CIS KE-MOTRONIC guru's out there?
09-28-2005, 03:03 PM
#1
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Any CIS KE-MOTRONIC guru's out there?
I have an 88 90 with the 3A 4cyl and the automatic. I realize that the majority of people on this forum are rockin quattro 5cyls, I figured I'd ask since there seems to be a ton of knowledge here.
I am having issues with the cold start/start enrichment circuit. When cold the CSV does not fire. I've tested the CSV by applying voltage to it, it works. Checked that the CSV is getting power, it is.
I've recently replaced the coolant temp sensor for the CIS, replaced the plugs on the temp sender and the CSV, checked/cleaned the grounds on the head and the intake manifold.
Also of note, recently replaced cap/rotor/plugs, O2 sensor. ISV functions normal, no vacuum leaks. Fuel pump and filter were done 4 months ago (amazing how quiet a good pump can be).
Once the engine gets warm, it runs great.
I'm waiting for my multimeter to be returned so I can do the circuit tests as described in the Bentley manual, however I doubt the wiring is the issue.
Currently I am getting no fault codes.
I have a few questions though.
1. Does anyone have a diagram VAG 1315A/1 test adapter...how to hook up a meter to the differential pressure regulator? Or maybe know where I can get one?
2. Is it possible that the above mentioned circuits have failed in the ECU, yet the ECU has no other problems and does not return 1111, meaning it doesn't know it's broken?
3. Has anyone had the same issues/similar issues and how were they corrected?
Any insight, opinions, solutions would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance
I am having issues with the cold start/start enrichment circuit. When cold the CSV does not fire. I've tested the CSV by applying voltage to it, it works. Checked that the CSV is getting power, it is.
I've recently replaced the coolant temp sensor for the CIS, replaced the plugs on the temp sender and the CSV, checked/cleaned the grounds on the head and the intake manifold.
Also of note, recently replaced cap/rotor/plugs, O2 sensor. ISV functions normal, no vacuum leaks. Fuel pump and filter were done 4 months ago (amazing how quiet a good pump can be).
Once the engine gets warm, it runs great.
I'm waiting for my multimeter to be returned so I can do the circuit tests as described in the Bentley manual, however I doubt the wiring is the issue.
Currently I am getting no fault codes.
I have a few questions though.
1. Does anyone have a diagram VAG 1315A/1 test adapter...how to hook up a meter to the differential pressure regulator? Or maybe know where I can get one?
2. Is it possible that the above mentioned circuits have failed in the ECU, yet the ECU has no other problems and does not return 1111, meaning it doesn't know it's broken?
3. Has anyone had the same issues/similar issues and how were they corrected?
Any insight, opinions, solutions would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance
09-28-2005, 03:16 PM
#2
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Thermo-time switch is probably done. BTDT on a 3A...
No CSV actuation and long long long cold starting, cranking for 2 minutes in really cold weather. Thermo-time switch controls the operation of the CSV, not the coolant temp sender.
Building a DPR tester is easy, check out Huw's site:
<a href="http://www.humanspeakers.com/audi/timing2.htm#harness">http://www.humanspeakers.com/audi/timing2.htm#harness</a>
Basically you just make bridge so you can measure the mV. I took an old multimeter and just wired inbetween the plugs, positive in and negative back out, then bridge the other wire.
Cheers,
Building a DPR tester is easy, check out Huw's site:
<a href="http://www.humanspeakers.com/audi/timing2.htm#harness">http://www.humanspeakers.com/audi/timing2.htm#harness</a>
Basically you just make bridge so you can measure the mV. I took an old multimeter and just wired inbetween the plugs, positive in and negative back out, then bridge the other wire.
Cheers,
09-28-2005, 03:44 PM
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Re: Thermo-time switch is probably done. BTDT on a 3A...
Thank you for that link.
As far as the Thermo time switch goes, I believe that is what I replaced...bottom of the coolant neck on the head. I appologize for any confusion there, the Haynes manual calles it a coolant temp sender but I have heard it called a thermotime switch and when I ordered the replacement it was also called a thermotime switch. If that is the thermotime switch then it has been replaced.
As far as the Thermo time switch goes, I believe that is what I replaced...bottom of the coolant neck on the head. I appologize for any confusion there, the Haynes manual calles it a coolant temp sender but I have heard it called a thermotime switch and when I ordered the replacement it was also called a thermotime switch. If that is the thermotime switch then it has been replaced.
09-28-2005, 05:33 PM
#4
Can you clarify the issue?
When cold, the car is difficult to start, but when started runs fine almost immediately?
When cold, car is hard to start and won't run well until warm?
When cold, car fires immediately but won't stay running unitl warm?
When cold, car is hard to start and won't run well until warm?
When cold, car fires immediately but won't stay running unitl warm?
09-28-2005, 07:00 PM
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Re: Can you clarify the issue?
Sure thing. Hard to start and if I attempt to drive immediatly after starting, there is hesitation. Once started, car idles smoothly but low, as in where it idles hot...about 800 RPM. If I let it warm up for a few minutes there are no drivability problems.
09-29-2005, 03:04 AM
#6
Have you tried removing the cold start valve and watching it while you crank the car?
The CSV is a very reliable system. It should fire for a few seconds with the key in the crank position. Once the key is released, it should not fire.
09-29-2005, 05:54 AM
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Re: Have you tried removing the cold start valve and watching it while you crank the car?
Yes, as the Bentley manual described with a 15 kohm resistor and with the thermo time connected. When I put power directly to the CSV (9volt battery) it fired and the pattern was as it should be. Also, I am getting battery voltage to terminal 2 of the CSV as I should, if I'm reading the wiring diagram correctly that is. I know that the CSV itself is fine, what I question is the circuitry in the ECU.
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09-29-2005, 06:29 AM
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Re: So if you leave everything connected, but remove the CSV...
No, doesn't fire when everything is connected as it should be.
Also a correction...Battery voltage is at term 1 on the CSV not term 2 with ignition on.
Also a correction...Battery voltage is at term 1 on the CSV not term 2 with ignition on.
09-29-2005, 06:41 AM
#10
That's an odd system.
Power is provided to both the sitch and the valve when the key is in the start position. The valve fires when it finds ground through the switch. The switch must be grounded to the block for the system to work. The switch opens (killing the ground to the vavle and thus shutting it down) based on temperature; when it is hot, it's open. The switch can be warm enough not to close based on the heat of the engine, outside air, or via its internal heater. Basically, the power to the valve heats it up and opens it. This limits the amount of time the CSV fires to a few seconds.
Does that help at all?
Does that help at all?