Caveat Emptor. (long)
01-21-2009, 08:54 PM
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Caveat Emptor. (long)
Latin for (roughly) "Let the buyer beware."
I have been doing business on the internet for over ten years, both with private parties and companies. I can honestly say that well over 99% of those transactions have gone well.
But lately, I have been having problems, especially with Audi-related purchases from both Audiworld members and Audifans list members. A recent one involved some B3 parts.
Over a month ago, I e-mailed a guy about some various stuff he had listed FS. Included was some headlamps, taillight lenses, clear corners, 7A TB and 7A MAF. Also included was a complete intake system up to the MAF.
Well, at the time, I needed the MAF and the drivers headlamp. My headlamp had a big crack, so it was time to replace it. Also, I have the self-diagnosed MAF failure coming on - the one where if you go to higher RPM, the car cuts out randomly, then randomly fixes itself. According to the staff at STFA, that sounds like a MAF going south. (Please correct me if I'm wrong on this - thanks.)
The other stuff I didn't need at all, but hey, I figured it like this: I save the guy some hassle in boxing, shipping and getting payment from several different people, and he cuts me a deal on the whole mess so that we both end up happy. He quoted me, at first, $260, shipped for the whole mess of stuff. Well, OK, that's not too bad of a price to pay for a set of headlamps and a MAF, and the rest of the stuff I can hang onto, or trade at me later date. Hell, knowing me, I'd give it away if someone asked nicely.
E-mail comes back the next day saying he now wants $320 for the whole thing, because shipping is more than he thought. OK, I think, when you said $260 shipped, that was the deal you made? Well, I do some quick calculation, and come back and tell him $290 is OK by me, and we finally settle on $300. Well, as you can see, that's where my first mistake was. I should have guessed something funny was going on when the guy wanted an extra $60 to cover shipping. Normal ground, too nothing fancy. But, I just assumed an honest mistake on his part, and let things fly like that, because I'm still OK with the price, even though it's not nearly so good as it was before. Still acceptable, however.
The boxes show up, and I open the box with the intake stuff to see it's mostly unusable. Certainly not usable as a reasonable replacement for worn-out stock bits. Well, that's no problem, except that the hose that runs to the airbox is crap, and that's the only part of the set-up that I was even remotely interested in. Still, it's some of the stuff he threw in "for free", except that it wasn't free because the extra box caused the extra shipping charge. Sigh. Well, my bad.
Come to find out, he didn't ship the MAF and TB. Well, now we have a problem. Of all the stuff in the whole group of parts that I actually NEEDED, this was it. In fact, if I had known at the beginning that the MAF wasn't going to ever show up, I wouldn't have even bothered the guy about the parts in the first place. So, after a couple of weeks of waiting for him to ship the MAF and TB, I e-mail. He hadn't got to it. OK, fine - just ship the thing ASAP, OK? Another few days goes by. He can't find the TB and MAF. He's looked everywhere.
But he is willing to refund $40. Now, to be fair, when he originally e-mailed me what the prices would be, he listed the TB at $10 and the MAF @ $30. So yes, $40. But $260 for a bunch of parts I don't need? OK, now I'm a bit miffed. Mostly by the attitude - "Here's the prices I quoted", conveniently forgetting his original "shipped" price. I see how this is going. Well, I am now tired of trying to get anything more out of him for his error and not living up to his end of things. "So," I says, "why not you just refund me a total of $260, and I'll send back your parts?" Yeah, he'll do that.
Except when I ask for a shipping address, I get a big, fat load of crickets chirping. OK, I know how this is going now. I'm going to eat it and consider it a cheap lesson. I could dispute the thing with PayPal, but that's more hassle than it's worth. I could also go around PayPal and dispute it with my CC company. That kills my PayPal account, which is not insurmountable, but inconvenient. Or, I could let my lapse of good judgment be a lesson to others.
I will admit it is entirely possible that I had unrealistic expectations, and was not being fair to the guy. If that is the case, I am willing to take my lumps, because grown-ups admit when they make mistakes. So, here are the lessons I learned from this deal:
1.) If a deal is struck, and the deal then changes - walk away.
2.) Ask for pictures of all the stuff first. Even if you trust the person on the other end, make SURE he's got all the stuff together. I'm going to choose to believe that the MAF and TB really are lost in the case of this deal. This also ensures you don't get a bunch of stuff ready for the dumpster when you expected stuff ready to bolt up to your vehicle.
3.) Save every bit of packaging from the shipment just in case there's a hassle.
4.) When in doubt on used parts, go with Force5 Wetzel Racing or Shokan. Chris at Force5 is great.
5.) When a deal seems too good to be true, it is. (Not this deal specifically, but a different deal on Audifans.)
If only one person saves money form this, it will have been worth the time I spent typing it. Thanks for reading this far.
I have been doing business on the internet for over ten years, both with private parties and companies. I can honestly say that well over 99% of those transactions have gone well.
But lately, I have been having problems, especially with Audi-related purchases from both Audiworld members and Audifans list members. A recent one involved some B3 parts.
Over a month ago, I e-mailed a guy about some various stuff he had listed FS. Included was some headlamps, taillight lenses, clear corners, 7A TB and 7A MAF. Also included was a complete intake system up to the MAF.
Well, at the time, I needed the MAF and the drivers headlamp. My headlamp had a big crack, so it was time to replace it. Also, I have the self-diagnosed MAF failure coming on - the one where if you go to higher RPM, the car cuts out randomly, then randomly fixes itself. According to the staff at STFA, that sounds like a MAF going south. (Please correct me if I'm wrong on this - thanks.)
The other stuff I didn't need at all, but hey, I figured it like this: I save the guy some hassle in boxing, shipping and getting payment from several different people, and he cuts me a deal on the whole mess so that we both end up happy. He quoted me, at first, $260, shipped for the whole mess of stuff. Well, OK, that's not too bad of a price to pay for a set of headlamps and a MAF, and the rest of the stuff I can hang onto, or trade at me later date. Hell, knowing me, I'd give it away if someone asked nicely.
E-mail comes back the next day saying he now wants $320 for the whole thing, because shipping is more than he thought. OK, I think, when you said $260 shipped, that was the deal you made? Well, I do some quick calculation, and come back and tell him $290 is OK by me, and we finally settle on $300. Well, as you can see, that's where my first mistake was. I should have guessed something funny was going on when the guy wanted an extra $60 to cover shipping. Normal ground, too nothing fancy. But, I just assumed an honest mistake on his part, and let things fly like that, because I'm still OK with the price, even though it's not nearly so good as it was before. Still acceptable, however.
The boxes show up, and I open the box with the intake stuff to see it's mostly unusable. Certainly not usable as a reasonable replacement for worn-out stock bits. Well, that's no problem, except that the hose that runs to the airbox is crap, and that's the only part of the set-up that I was even remotely interested in. Still, it's some of the stuff he threw in "for free", except that it wasn't free because the extra box caused the extra shipping charge. Sigh. Well, my bad.
Come to find out, he didn't ship the MAF and TB. Well, now we have a problem. Of all the stuff in the whole group of parts that I actually NEEDED, this was it. In fact, if I had known at the beginning that the MAF wasn't going to ever show up, I wouldn't have even bothered the guy about the parts in the first place. So, after a couple of weeks of waiting for him to ship the MAF and TB, I e-mail. He hadn't got to it. OK, fine - just ship the thing ASAP, OK? Another few days goes by. He can't find the TB and MAF. He's looked everywhere.
But he is willing to refund $40. Now, to be fair, when he originally e-mailed me what the prices would be, he listed the TB at $10 and the MAF @ $30. So yes, $40. But $260 for a bunch of parts I don't need? OK, now I'm a bit miffed. Mostly by the attitude - "Here's the prices I quoted", conveniently forgetting his original "shipped" price. I see how this is going. Well, I am now tired of trying to get anything more out of him for his error and not living up to his end of things. "So," I says, "why not you just refund me a total of $260, and I'll send back your parts?" Yeah, he'll do that.
Except when I ask for a shipping address, I get a big, fat load of crickets chirping. OK, I know how this is going now. I'm going to eat it and consider it a cheap lesson. I could dispute the thing with PayPal, but that's more hassle than it's worth. I could also go around PayPal and dispute it with my CC company. That kills my PayPal account, which is not insurmountable, but inconvenient. Or, I could let my lapse of good judgment be a lesson to others.
I will admit it is entirely possible that I had unrealistic expectations, and was not being fair to the guy. If that is the case, I am willing to take my lumps, because grown-ups admit when they make mistakes. So, here are the lessons I learned from this deal:
1.) If a deal is struck, and the deal then changes - walk away.
2.) Ask for pictures of all the stuff first. Even if you trust the person on the other end, make SURE he's got all the stuff together. I'm going to choose to believe that the MAF and TB really are lost in the case of this deal. This also ensures you don't get a bunch of stuff ready for the dumpster when you expected stuff ready to bolt up to your vehicle.
3.) Save every bit of packaging from the shipment just in case there's a hassle.
4.) When in doubt on used parts, go with Force5 Wetzel Racing or Shokan. Chris at Force5 is great.
5.) When a deal seems too good to be true, it is. (Not this deal specifically, but a different deal on Audifans.)
If only one person saves money form this, it will have been worth the time I spent typing it. Thanks for reading this far.
01-21-2009, 09:36 PM
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Yeah. I'd love to believe that would happen.
But I got to thinking after he never sent me a return address - what happens AFTER I send the whole mess back? Do I trust this guy to refund my PayPal?
If he doesn't, then I'm out the parts, and my money, AND I have go through the hassle of PayPal or CC dispute.
He's already bent me over twice. Three times, really. Give him a chance for number four? How much is my time worth?
Well, other than wasting it typing long stories into AW, that is. LOL.
Hey, what do you think about my MAF diagnosis?
If he doesn't, then I'm out the parts, and my money, AND I have go through the hassle of PayPal or CC dispute.
He's already bent me over twice. Three times, really. Give him a chance for number four? How much is my time worth?
Well, other than wasting it typing long stories into AW, that is. LOL.
Hey, what do you think about my MAF diagnosis?
01-21-2009, 10:04 PM
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Heh. Yeah, but I'm over there often enough...
...that I can round up a posse and get my money back.
LOL.
Thanks, man. OK, I'll ask you too - whatchoo think about my MAF diagnosis?
LOL.
Thanks, man. OK, I'll ask you too - whatchoo think about my MAF diagnosis?
01-21-2009, 10:36 PM
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Bentley - funny you should mention it...
Here's a funny story - last spring, when I sold my '90 80q "Pink Tornado" (Faded T-red paint, you see...), I let the paper Bentley go along with, because I had no intention of ever buying another B3, nor did I want to dick around with selling it on FleaBay.
St00pid.
On both counts. I am awaiting a Bentley as we speak.
You know, this story is not nearly so funny as I imagined it would be...
St00pid.
On both counts. I am awaiting a Bentley as we speak.
You know, this story is not nearly so funny as I imagined it would be...
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01-22-2009, 03:41 AM
#8
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If you need a MAF and TB let me know
I have them both used, but working. I'll throw them in a box for you for free, really. FWIF - I disputed something with paypal and they were very helpful. Actually got someone on the phone.
01-22-2009, 04:58 AM
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By not disputing this you are just helping this guy perpetuate this circle of
deceit. I would dispute it with Paypal no matter what hassle it is to you. Also, post something up on Audifans/Audiworld about this guy so other forum members aren't taken by him
01-22-2009, 05:06 AM
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Geeez Silber, I hate hearing crap like this. But in a way your experience has ....
just confirmed to me that dealing on sites like Audifan is a crap shoot at best and lunacy at worst. There are guys I know & trust who deal on Audifans. Those guys are here. The others I do not know from Adam & will not deal with them. Like you have found out .."Buyer Beware".