that damn leak drives me nuts
08-20-2008, 08:24 AM
#1
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that damn leak drives me nuts
Alright, is it even possible if your VPG was leaking the oil could make its way out of that area to the point it ends up on your belly pan?
I tore everything apart last week down to the cam seals and they were actually dry, no oil around them at all. Yesterday I replaced my ancient VGC and from what I can tell they are dry as a bone too.
I can see though an oil slick on the pan that looks somewhat fresh, that or just old oil that remelts with heat.
This one has me swinging but atleast it seems confined to just the right bank and not both.
Wherever its coming from it seems to like to drip right onto the coolant hose, run down to the elbow then drip on the pan.
I have all the parts needed to yank off the intake manifold, now I just need the time.
I must say the VPG does not look that beefy, its just a thin paper style, not rubber or viton or some other new age material which would be a better upgrade.
Personally a VCG style VPG would be ideal.
I won't know more about that until I get the manifold off and clean it up.
as for the EGR sensor, why remove it when you can just snip the zip ties, undo the plug and leave it on?
I tore everything apart last week down to the cam seals and they were actually dry, no oil around them at all. Yesterday I replaced my ancient VGC and from what I can tell they are dry as a bone too.
I can see though an oil slick on the pan that looks somewhat fresh, that or just old oil that remelts with heat.
This one has me swinging but atleast it seems confined to just the right bank and not both.
Wherever its coming from it seems to like to drip right onto the coolant hose, run down to the elbow then drip on the pan.
I have all the parts needed to yank off the intake manifold, now I just need the time.
I must say the VPG does not look that beefy, its just a thin paper style, not rubber or viton or some other new age material which would be a better upgrade.
Personally a VCG style VPG would be ideal.
I won't know more about that until I get the manifold off and clean it up.
as for the EGR sensor, why remove it when you can just snip the zip ties, undo the plug and leave it on?
08-20-2008, 08:37 AM
#2
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only 1 way to do the VPG....
like this...<ul><li><a href="https://forums.audiworld.com/12v/msgs/53678.phtml">https://forums.audiworld.com/12v/msgs/53678.phtml</a></li></ul>
08-20-2008, 09:45 AM
#3
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sounds like a plan if its actually warped
the task of taking off the manifold though, I question how others have done it by removing the EGR sensor (nice and fragile) instead of just pulling the metal clip and unplugging it so it come out intact with the manifold.
From what I gather basically the only way your going to get a wrench on this thing is to remove the TB so you can actually see it and not snap it off.
Now that my fuel return line seems touchy I am somewhat leery to even undo that line.
I am curious to tackle this job just as soon as I have a decent secondary ride just in case something does goofy, lol.
Still with so many bolts not that far spaced apart you would think it would not warp at all. And as I mentioned apparently no upgraded gasket was thought of yet made of something but flimsy paper stock. Its as if Audi dared you to make your own gasket to do it right.
From what I gather basically the only way your going to get a wrench on this thing is to remove the TB so you can actually see it and not snap it off.
Now that my fuel return line seems touchy I am somewhat leery to even undo that line.
I am curious to tackle this job just as soon as I have a decent secondary ride just in case something does goofy, lol.
Still with so many bolts not that far spaced apart you would think it would not warp at all. And as I mentioned apparently no upgraded gasket was thought of yet made of something but flimsy paper stock. Its as if Audi dared you to make your own gasket to do it right.
08-20-2008, 09:57 AM
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Well, you can replace the valley pan cover. The cover itself is aluminum...
...sitting on the cast iron block. I'm assuming due to its location and the fact that cast iron and aluminum heat and cool differently that attributes to why the pans warp.
The reason you're seeing oil on the belly pan is when you're driving the air flow through the engine can easily blow oil down the back side of the engine (although usually it ends up all over the cats/exhaust/etc).
The reason you're seeing oil on the belly pan is when you're driving the air flow through the engine can easily blow oil down the back side of the engine (although usually it ends up all over the cats/exhaust/etc).
08-20-2008, 12:36 PM
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Re: sounds like a plan if its actually warped
just assume the cover is warped.
as for the EGR, only 2 bolts hold it the I.M. not hard at all with a "stubby" wrench, ratchet, extender and maybe one of those "swivel" links.
Do the head's while you are in there (air intake gasket match)
as for the EGR, only 2 bolts hold it the I.M. not hard at all with a "stubby" wrench, ratchet, extender and maybe one of those "swivel" links.
Do the head's while you are in there (air intake gasket match)
08-21-2008, 05:37 AM
#6
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not sure about back but certainly front
Any oil on the tranny looks ancient but peering through under the PS pump it looks fairly fresh and of course that slight drip on my pan is mighty fresh
Can you actually buy a new pan and/or cover? I am sure the PN exists.
If I am going to go through that trouble as you did I might as well update the anti-drains even though the design seems simplistic enough if they have upped the revision then something had to be improved, least you would hope so.
not that $34 x2 is cheap for 2 valves but if it helps it was worth it.
While on this subject, I have read where the grommets inside the manifold that control the butterflies get brittle with age and should not really be disturbed. If you were to hose the intake out with simple green, etc to clean it out is that really a good idea?
Any oil residue could be acting as a preservative, removing that oil could make those grommets crack, etc.
As much as I like to clean things as I go in some cases its almost best to leave well enough alone.
Can you actually buy a new pan and/or cover? I am sure the PN exists.
If I am going to go through that trouble as you did I might as well update the anti-drains even though the design seems simplistic enough if they have upped the revision then something had to be improved, least you would hope so.
not that $34 x2 is cheap for 2 valves but if it helps it was worth it.
While on this subject, I have read where the grommets inside the manifold that control the butterflies get brittle with age and should not really be disturbed. If you were to hose the intake out with simple green, etc to clean it out is that really a good idea?
Any oil residue could be acting as a preservative, removing that oil could make those grommets crack, etc.
As much as I like to clean things as I go in some cases its almost best to leave well enough alone.
08-21-2008, 05:53 AM
#7
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you mean dremel off the extra material?
by removing that blockage could you in any way weaken the manifold structure wise? I have noticed the cast parts are not exactly perfect. The cast block when I took the VC off had a few slag spots and the entire area if fairly rough.
as for EGR, not the valve but that sensor (wire) that is nicely tucked under the TB.
Write up at 12v notes to just take it out carefully then upon inserting to wind it a few times counter clockwise so it ends up straight again.
My thought was, just undo the black plastic plug and leave it in. Trick is probably finding how buried the plug end is.
as for EGR, not the valve but that sensor (wire) that is nicely tucked under the TB.
Write up at 12v notes to just take it out carefully then upon inserting to wind it a few times counter clockwise so it ends up straight again.
My thought was, just undo the black plastic plug and leave it in. Trick is probably finding how buried the plug end is.
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08-21-2008, 09:37 AM
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Well if you can take off the upper engine cover and see a puddle of oil under the intake...
...you're probably long since due for a valley pan (regardless of where it's dripping).
You can buy a new cover - I know a few folks have as they said it wasn't too expensive at the time. I'd do the anti-drainback valves while you have it all apart. Earlier ones did fail over time and you'd get a lot of valve chatter on cold start-ups.
As you said, $30 or so each isn't bad and it'll ensure oil stays in the top end for years to come.
I've never cleaned out any of the intake manifolds on any of the V6s as mine never appeared that dirty. If you're worried about the butterflies I probably wouldn't mess with it unless you want to get nitty-gritty and take the intake apart and clean/replace parts.
The only passage you might want to clear would be the EGR if it's really nasty (once again some folks say theirs are clogged - any of mine that I've looked at have been fine.
You can buy a new cover - I know a few folks have as they said it wasn't too expensive at the time. I'd do the anti-drainback valves while you have it all apart. Earlier ones did fail over time and you'd get a lot of valve chatter on cold start-ups.
As you said, $30 or so each isn't bad and it'll ensure oil stays in the top end for years to come.
I've never cleaned out any of the intake manifolds on any of the V6s as mine never appeared that dirty. If you're worried about the butterflies I probably wouldn't mess with it unless you want to get nitty-gritty and take the intake apart and clean/replace parts.
The only passage you might want to clear would be the EGR if it's really nasty (once again some folks say theirs are clogged - any of mine that I've looked at have been fine.
08-21-2008, 10:18 AM
#9
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I bet its really overdue
I am sure the original owner did nothing with it so its all factory. The intake gaskets are so old they are actually frayed at the ends.
EGR passage for sure just for the sake of it. I did not try the head bolt when I had the covers off even though I have a 12 point female socket. angle wise of the bolts is not the best to get a torque wrench in. Once I actually get the pan area cleaned up I might be able to tell if the head gaskets are leaking and then go about trying it but I'll hold off for now.
For the life of me I can't figure out why I bought a pair of exhaust gaskets, lol.
I have no plan on taking the exhaust manifold off.
Intake, TB (if you remove it) and EGR gaskts are all that should be needed, and of course the whimpy looking valley pan gasket.
I have that all covered for <$20.
Oddly besides the fairly recent (2000K) cam seal replacement I have been running the High Mile M1 10-40 and I have this leak.
It should not be a factor but one never knows.
I could swear the engine was less chattery with the rotella-T synth (group III) 5-40.
I might switch back, I think its just a buck or 2 less in price.
Then again 126K is not really considered high mile with Audi's so those seal conditioners maybe are not so good?
Always something to ponder on.
BTW, if you happen to have ETKA open for somebody I would be curious to toss the PN for the pan in just to see what it would cost.
Thanks
EGR passage for sure just for the sake of it. I did not try the head bolt when I had the covers off even though I have a 12 point female socket. angle wise of the bolts is not the best to get a torque wrench in. Once I actually get the pan area cleaned up I might be able to tell if the head gaskets are leaking and then go about trying it but I'll hold off for now.
For the life of me I can't figure out why I bought a pair of exhaust gaskets, lol.
I have no plan on taking the exhaust manifold off.
Intake, TB (if you remove it) and EGR gaskts are all that should be needed, and of course the whimpy looking valley pan gasket.
I have that all covered for <$20.
Oddly besides the fairly recent (2000K) cam seal replacement I have been running the High Mile M1 10-40 and I have this leak.
It should not be a factor but one never knows.
I could swear the engine was less chattery with the rotella-T synth (group III) 5-40.
I might switch back, I think its just a buck or 2 less in price.
Then again 126K is not really considered high mile with Audi's so those seal conditioners maybe are not so good?
Always something to ponder on.
BTW, if you happen to have ETKA open for somebody I would be curious to toss the PN for the pan in just to see what it would cost.
Thanks
08-21-2008, 11:47 AM
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Re: you mean dremel off the extra material?
that's what I do (undo the egr temp sensor plug and leave it in)
as for your first paragraph...you have confused me.
have a look at here to see what I mean...
http://edsaudi12v.com/audi/headworkshop/<ul><li><a href="http://edsaudi12v.com/audi/headworkshop/">http://edsaudi12v.com/audi/headworkshop/</a></li></ul>
as for your first paragraph...you have confused me.
have a look at here to see what I mean...
http://edsaudi12v.com/audi/headworkshop/<ul><li><a href="http://edsaudi12v.com/audi/headworkshop/">http://edsaudi12v.com/audi/headworkshop/</a></li></ul>