Loss of power when engine is hot.
07-06-2001, 05:10 PM
#11
01E Type
<center><img src="http://elektro.cmhnet.org/~charlie/photos/cars/01E/01E_6speed.jpg"></center><p>Here's the rundown of 01E gearbox ratios from the parts microfiche. The microfiche I have only goes through 1998, and has European part#'s. This now includes information on the US A6tt and S4tt 01E gearboxes.
Some cars shipped to the US and Canada definitely have different code transmissions than the European installations shown here. A good example is the US 1995 UrS6 - the US cars have the CBD gearbox with the 0.73 top gear, and the European cars have the CET shown here with the 0.76 top gear.
The 01E transmission is the one found in S-cars, and in the European V8's and A8's. The '91 V8 5 Spd was a type 016 transmission, the '91 6 Spd was a type 01E which we never saw here in the US. The US 2000 and later 6 speed gearboxes are also the 01E type. When looking at a car, it's easy to tell an 01E - reverse gear is down and forward to the left.
You will see comments here about a "wide 1st gear". There is a discussion at the bottom, with some Questions and Answers, about the various 1st gears that have been fitted in the 01E quattro transmission.
Basically, there was the original type 1st (mainshaft part # 01E 311 105 G), the wider 1st, not hardened (...105J) the hardened 1st (...105E) and the hardened wide 1st (...105H).
As a note, the mainshaft side of 1st and 2nd gear ratios are cut on the mainshaft, and the driven shaft side of 3rd and 4th ratios are cut on that shaft. This driven shaft is hollow and the pinion shaft runs inside it. This means that you have to change 3rd and 4th gear ratios as a set since the driven shaft includes both. You can run any 5th and any 6th ratio.
GEARBOX
------------
5 Spd.
5 Spd.
6 Spd.
6 Spd. RS2
6 Spd S6 4.2L
6 Spd A6tt - S4tt
6 Spd 2.5L TDI RATIOS
----------------------------------
3.50 1.89 1.23 0.93 0.73 CBD
3.50 1.89 1.23 0.93 0.76 CET - European
3.50 1.89 1.32 1.03 0.86 0.73 ** CBM **#
3.50 1.89 1.32 1.03 0.86 0.71
3.50 1.89 1.32 1.03 0.81 0.68 ** CBN
3.50 1.89 1.32 1.03 0.81 0.68 EDU
3.50 1.89 1.32 0.87 0.67 0.56
** both sets of ratios are listed for S6 V8 6 speeds.
**# DGV listed for A8 1994-> Includes oil pump & wide 1st gear
As far as I can see, the A8 Quattro 6 speeds have internal ratios matching those above. The A8 NON-Quattro 01E gearbox has some different ratios but I can't tell if the parts are interchangable. I'd guess not.
Numbers shown as >>88888 means "up to # 88888", and 88889>> means "after # 88889." This is the point where the wide 1st gear began use in that particular transmission. The clues in the part # fiche are drive shaft, or main shaft, part # 01E 311 105 H, 1st gear # 01E 311 257 D, and middle housing part # 01E 301 211 B. There is also a bearing that's changed.
Here's a breakdown of transmission part numbers, codes, and use.
Trans part #
____________________
01E 300 042 B/BX/BV
???
01E 300 043 E/EX/EV
01E 300 044 J/JX/JV
01E 300 042 NX/NV
01E 300 044 E/EX/EV
01E 300 043 Q/QX/QV
01E 300 044 H
01E 300 045 G
01E 300 043 F/FX/FV
01E 300 044 K
01E 300 043 S/SX/SV
01E 300 044 P
01E 300 042 C
01E 300 042 D
01E 300 044 L
01E 300 044 N
01E 300 044 A
01E 300 044 A desc
______
__________________________
CBD - for S4 (1992-1994)
CBD - for S6 (1995 USA)
CET - for S6 (1995 Europe)
CET - for S6 (1995 Europe)
CBL - for S6 (1995)
CBL - for S6 (1995)
CMG - for S6 4.2L
CMG - for S6 4.2L
EDU - for S4tt & A6tt
CGR - for S2 (1995)
CGR - for S2 (1995)
CRB - for RS2 (1994 - 1996)
DGU - for S6+ (1997)
CBM - for V8 (1991 - 1994)
CBN - for V8 (1991 - 1994)
CYB - for A8 (1998)
DGV - for A8 (1994-1998)
DPJ - for 2.5L turbo diesel
DQT - for 2.5L turbo diesel notes
Characteristic
---------------
narrow
wide
narrow, hardened
wide, hardened
driveshaft -
Teeth
-----
32+28
32+29
33+30
32+26*
has 4th + 3rd ratios cut
Transmission Code
--------------
CET/CBD
CMG - EDU
CBL - DGU
DQT
on hollow shaft.
Part # suffix
-------------
925 A
925 C
925 D
925 G
Notes
------------------
Middle housing (end plate) - showing switch to wide 1st gear w/ 211B housing
Part #
01E 301 211
01E 301 211 B
01E 301 211 B
Application
5/6 Spd
5/6 Spd
6 Spd
Notes
CGR >>77643 CET/CBL/CMG >>79444
CGR 77644>> CET/CBL/CMG 79445>> all CRB
EDU
Endhousing (cover) (5th & 6th area) - showing S2 and RS2 difference
-------------
01E 301 231 J
01E 301 231 L
01E 301 231 N
--------
5/6 Spd
6 Spd
6 Spd
------------
All
CGR/CRB
EDU
------------------
S4 / S6 / V8 / A8
S2 / RS2
S4tt / A6tt
Cover for gearshift rod (mounts backup light switch) - showing difference for S2 and RS2
-------------
01E 301 453 C
01E 301 453 D
01E 301 453 F
--------
5/6 Spd
6 Spd
6 Spd
------------
All
CGR/CRB
EDU
------------------
S4 / S67 / V8 / A8
S2 / RS2
Bell housing (case) - showing differences for V8 / V6tt engines
-------------
01E 301 103
01E 301 103 A
01E 301 103 J
01E 301 103 K
--------
5/6 Spd
6 Spd
6 Spd
6 Spd
------------
CET/CBL
CMG/CBM/CBN
DGV
EDU
------------------
5 Cyl.
V8
A8 V8
2.7L V6 tt
Axle and Driveshaft Flanges are all the same part #s.
================================================== ===============
DISCUSSION ON 1ST GEAR VARIATIONS, AND 6 SPEEDS IN GENERAL:
================================================== ===============
Q. What are the variations on 1st gear in the 01E transmission?
A. Basically, there was the original type 1st (mainshaft part # 01E 311 105 G), the hardened 1st ( ... 105 E) and the wide 1st ( ... 105 H). The 105G was the 1st gear originally used in the lower HP cars, which included all of the '92 - '95 US and Canada cars with a 5 speed, and European 6 speed cars with AAN engines during the same period. During this early period, the V8 cars and the S2's had a hardened mainshaft for 1st gear, this is the 105E. The higher horepower cars like the RS2 had yet a different mainshaft, with a wider gear for 1st. This wider 1st mainshaft (105H) gradually migrated into all of the other 6 speed cars, somewhere around late 1995 or early 1996.
Q. Why should I buy a used six speed when I can buy a new one from Blau?
A. As of 3/22/2000, Blau does not have any available and has no firm dates on any becoming available. The Blau transmission is a CBL which does not have a hardened main shaft like the S2 or RS2. The Blau transmission is around $4500. Also, you don't know for certain if the Blau transmission has the wider first gear unless you get the serial number in advance.
Q. What's this talk about the wider first gear?
A. There is a problem with the early 01E series of transmissions. First gear is not wide enough for the loads that a turbo can produce under some situations. This has happened in both chipped and non-chipped cars. Audi made the RS2 transmission with a wider first gear to handle the increased torque. This change then made it into the S2 in late 1994 and finally into the S6 in June of 1995. If your S6 was a June '95 build date or later, you should check your transmission serial number to see if it is "CBD 79445" or above. If so, you have the wider first gear. One lister has destroyed first gear in three transmissions. He says he has a list of other s-listers who have the same problem. The author of this web page, Charlie Smith, personally experienced the problem. There is a description of the symptoms of the problem just below in this web page.
Q. How come the earlier Turbo Quattros with the 016 quattro transmission, in the 86 - 91 period, didn't have this problem. Isn't the 01E transmission supposed to be stronger?
A. There is a thought that this problem is related to the center Torsen differential, combined with inadequate 1st gear tooth surface strength. The thinking goes something like this ... as you break a front wheel loose under hard acceleration the Torsen differential locks and unlocks, causing a heavy shock load on the transmission. In 1st gear this shock loading puts very heavy pressure on the gear tooth surfaces, causing failure of the teeth.
What really happens is the surface of (probably) one tooth on 1st gear on the mainshaft becomes galled. If you have ever seen the inner race of a ball bearing that's failed - with very heavy pitting, that's what the failed first gear tooth looks like.
Note from Charlie Smith: A photo of the failed 1st gear teeth is at the bottom of this web page.
Another note: The above is only a theory - I'm told the UrQ got the Torsen worldwide in about '88 in the 016 transmission. So obviously the torsen center differential isn't the whole story.
Q. Do the S2 transmissions have the wider first gear?
A. Only the late model S2 transmissions, after serial number CGR 77644
Q. What the difference between the RS2 and the S2 transmissions?
A. Provided we're talking about the late model S2 versus the RS2, nothing except the code stamped on the outside. The RS2 transmission is code CRB and the S2 is code CGR. So if you use an S2, you lose bragging rights, but you're probably going to get a better price...
Q. Why don't I just get the parts directly from Europe or from Hoppen and rebuild my five speed into a six speed?
A. The center housing of the transmission is a different part for the wider first gear. Provided you were willing to give up the wider first gear, the best parts price anybody has gotten is $1900 (Steve Mills) and $3500 (Hoppen distributor). Most rebuilds reported on the s-list have cost at least $800 in labor (German Transaxle). Your car will have downtime, and you can't sell your old five speed on e-bay :-)
These prices are just for the 6 speed conversion parts. The parts to do a conversion to a wider 1st gear are probably another $1500 - $2000, and that's if you locally machine your center housing for clearance. I'm not sure it's feasible to machine this part, I'll update this information after some investigations.
Q. How do I know an RS2 or S2 transmission will fit and work correctly?
A. Several people have done the conversion and installed an RS2 or S2 transmission into a UrS4/S6.
Q. What about the new S4tt 6-speed transmissions?
A. Any wrecked S4tt is likely to get fixed or immediately purchased by an Audi tuner or racer. You'll be waiting a number of years before the supply is sufficient to get a reasonable price. The number of parts to change for the RS2 conversion is two. The number of parts to convert the S2 conversion is one. I don't know how many parts will be required to convert an S4tt transmission to fit in the UrS4/S6.
Q. What's the final drive ratio of the S4tt? Is it the same as the rear differential on the UrS4/S6?
A. Yes.
Q. Why can't I just buy a new S4tt 6-speed transmission from Audi? With estimates of $4500 to repair a transmission with a failed 1st gear, wouldn't it be cheaper to just buy a new one?
A. Per Carlsen Audi, the *dealer* cost on a complete new 6 speed S4tt transmission is $8300. Otherwise, it was an interesting idea.
================================================== ===============
HOW CAN I TELL WHAT CODE TRANSMISSION I HAVE?
================================================== ===============
How can I tell if I have a wide 1st gear?
Crawl under the car and look at the transmission serial number.
The number will be located on the bottom of the transmission right under the inner CV joint of the driveshaft for the left front wheel.
On the left side of the transmission, there is a side cover plate that's about 9" in diameter and it's bolted to the transmission with about 10 nuts. The flange that the CV joint fastens onto comes out through the middle of this side cover plate. The serial number is on the bottom of the transmission body, right under the bottom two nuts holding the side cover plate. It's on the bottom of the body, not the side plate.
The serial number will have the 3 letter code like "CBD"or "CBL" followed by 5 digits.
Check the 5 digit serial number with the numbers given above.
================================================== ===============
SYMPTOMS OF FIRST GEAR FAILURE
================================================== ===============
How can I tell if I have the problem?
A description of the symptoms in a '95 S6, with 56,000 miles on the odometer.
The noise began as a very faint tic, tic, tic noise - but just when beginning to move in 1st gear when the car was cold and when it was 20F or 25F degrees outside. Sort of like the noise you made as a kid by putting a playing card into the spokes of a bicycle, but not that loud. Since it was cold, of course the windows were rolled up.
I dismissed the noise, as perhaps being due to something that oil had not yet reached, because once I would shift into 2nd for a few feet, and then back into 1st - the noise would be gone. I would only hear it on the first motion ... when I would be traveling at 2 or 3 MPH in a parking lot with very light throttle.
Anyway, by the time I had driven another 2000 miles, the noise was quite apparent, particularily if I would drive away with the windows rolled down. On disassembly, the damage to 1st gear was quite apparent. The rubbing surface of one tooth on the mainshaft was very badly galled away.
1st gear failure, showing tooth galling Click on picture for enlarged photo.
During the period when the noise of the failure was developing, there no super fast starts, and certainly no wheel spinning starts. There was plenty of full throttle acceleration in first gear, but only after the clutch was fully out.
================================================== =========================
WHAT CAN I DO ABOUT IT IF MY TRANSMISSION SOUNDS LIKE THIS?
================================================== =========================
Here's a discussion of repair / replacement options for an 01E gearbox with a failing 1st gear.
a) the lowest cost repair:
Find an earlier 01E 5 speed that's got a bad pinion bearing, the
mainshaft is probably still good. Probable cost $350 or so.
Have a shop pull the parts you need out of the other transmission
and use them to fix your transmission. Probable labor cost $600
to $1000 depending on who does it.
b) Have someone buy the minimum parts you need in Germany, or through
Linda at Carlsen Audi. Probable parts cost $1500 to $2000.
Have a shop use them to fix your transmission.
c) Find a good used 01E 5 speed and install it. I found two or three
in the $1500 to $2500 range. That's with your bad transmission
in exchange. Consider, you don't really know what you are getting
until after it's installed.
d) Find a used 6 speed and install it. Be careful, since not all of
them have a hardened 1st gear or the wide 1st gear. See 6 speed
discussion below. Also, see above in this web page, this
lists serial numbers that will have the wide 1st gear.
e) Encourage Peter Blaser to get going on the group buy of 6 speed
S2 transmissions.
f) Another option on a 6 speed, I can call about one or two that
I located when I was searching for one for my car. My guess
is that one will have to be found and imported from Europe.
--------------------
6 speed discussion: Also, if you are buying it from Europe and importing it be aware the V8's have a different bell housing / differential housing part. The RS2/S2 gearboxes have a different rear housing. The labor to install your rear housing on a RS2/S2 isn't too bad, the labor to swap the bell housing part would be substantial and you'd either end up using considerable parts out of your transmission to go with your bell housing/differential housing or you would probably have to replace bearings and certainly would have to measure and replace adjustment shims - my view is that the V8 versions would be prohibitively expensive to convert and you might wait a long time trying to order some of the bearings and shims. An independant shop almost certainly wouldn't have a supply of shims on hand, and if they didn't I wouldn't let them do it anyway.
Probable cost on a 6 speed is $3200 - $3800 *without* conversion of the rear housing. One converted RS2 with shipping and with my old transmission in exchange would have been $4500. I went for one that had not been converted and paid $3800 which included shipping. I then had the dealer that diagnosed / disassembled my 5 speed pull the rear housing off the RS2 gearbox and put on the parts from my 5 speed. The total labor from the dealer was $900, which included removal, disassembly of the 5 speed, storage at no charge inside their garage for almost 3 months, conversion of the RS2 gearbox, and reinstallation and testing.
A note on doing the dissassembly / repair yourself, or through a friendly garage who has never done an 01E transmission. I've worked on Porsches for 30+ years, and have done many, over maybe 50, Porsche gearboxes. At one point I was doing them often enough that I built my own special tools to set up the adjustment dimensions, and I bought a complete set of all the various shims so I would have exactly the shim I needed to get the right adjustment on something. The Porsche transaxle is quite complicated to correctly assemble. For a while back in the early '70s I was racing a Porsche 911 in SCCA races. I was taking the transmission apart to change gear ratios every month or so.
The Audi Quattro transmission, any of them, has all the adjustment complications of the Porsche gearbox plus quite a bit more rather specific adjustments. The point being that the Audi quattro gearbox will need a set of special tools similar to that of the Porsche, plus several others.
I have considered making the special tools needed for the 01E gearbox, to that end I've kept the bad gearbox that came out of my car, so I can use it to measure and build the tools needed to adjust it for reassembly. Until I've made at least a few of the tools, I wouldn't consider trying to do it myself even on my own gearbox. Remember, if it isn't quite right, you've got to pull it back out and do it over again. If it isn't adjusted exactly right, it may have whines that will lead to early failure, or it may not shift right, or any of several other difficulties. Pulling the Quattro gearbox is not the easiest one around. It's quite heavy, you have front axles plus the driveshaft, and the exhaust has to come off so you've got room to remove it.
Some cars shipped to the US and Canada definitely have different code transmissions than the European installations shown here. A good example is the US 1995 UrS6 - the US cars have the CBD gearbox with the 0.73 top gear, and the European cars have the CET shown here with the 0.76 top gear.
The 01E transmission is the one found in S-cars, and in the European V8's and A8's. The '91 V8 5 Spd was a type 016 transmission, the '91 6 Spd was a type 01E which we never saw here in the US. The US 2000 and later 6 speed gearboxes are also the 01E type. When looking at a car, it's easy to tell an 01E - reverse gear is down and forward to the left.
You will see comments here about a "wide 1st gear". There is a discussion at the bottom, with some Questions and Answers, about the various 1st gears that have been fitted in the 01E quattro transmission.
Basically, there was the original type 1st (mainshaft part # 01E 311 105 G), the wider 1st, not hardened (...105J) the hardened 1st (...105E) and the hardened wide 1st (...105H).
As a note, the mainshaft side of 1st and 2nd gear ratios are cut on the mainshaft, and the driven shaft side of 3rd and 4th ratios are cut on that shaft. This driven shaft is hollow and the pinion shaft runs inside it. This means that you have to change 3rd and 4th gear ratios as a set since the driven shaft includes both. You can run any 5th and any 6th ratio.
GEARBOX
------------
5 Spd.
5 Spd.
6 Spd.
6 Spd. RS2
6 Spd S6 4.2L
6 Spd A6tt - S4tt
6 Spd 2.5L TDI RATIOS
----------------------------------
3.50 1.89 1.23 0.93 0.73 CBD
3.50 1.89 1.23 0.93 0.76 CET - European
3.50 1.89 1.32 1.03 0.86 0.73 ** CBM **#
3.50 1.89 1.32 1.03 0.86 0.71
3.50 1.89 1.32 1.03 0.81 0.68 ** CBN
3.50 1.89 1.32 1.03 0.81 0.68 EDU
3.50 1.89 1.32 0.87 0.67 0.56
** both sets of ratios are listed for S6 V8 6 speeds.
**# DGV listed for A8 1994-> Includes oil pump & wide 1st gear
As far as I can see, the A8 Quattro 6 speeds have internal ratios matching those above. The A8 NON-Quattro 01E gearbox has some different ratios but I can't tell if the parts are interchangable. I'd guess not.
Numbers shown as >>88888 means "up to # 88888", and 88889>> means "after # 88889." This is the point where the wide 1st gear began use in that particular transmission. The clues in the part # fiche are drive shaft, or main shaft, part # 01E 311 105 H, 1st gear # 01E 311 257 D, and middle housing part # 01E 301 211 B. There is also a bearing that's changed.
Here's a breakdown of transmission part numbers, codes, and use.
Trans part #
____________________
01E 300 042 B/BX/BV
???
01E 300 043 E/EX/EV
01E 300 044 J/JX/JV
01E 300 042 NX/NV
01E 300 044 E/EX/EV
01E 300 043 Q/QX/QV
01E 300 044 H
01E 300 045 G
01E 300 043 F/FX/FV
01E 300 044 K
01E 300 043 S/SX/SV
01E 300 044 P
01E 300 042 C
01E 300 042 D
01E 300 044 L
01E 300 044 N
01E 300 044 A
01E 300 044 A desc
______
__________________________
CBD - for S4 (1992-1994)
CBD - for S6 (1995 USA)
CET - for S6 (1995 Europe)
CET - for S6 (1995 Europe)
CBL - for S6 (1995)
CBL - for S6 (1995)
CMG - for S6 4.2L
CMG - for S6 4.2L
EDU - for S4tt & A6tt
CGR - for S2 (1995)
CGR - for S2 (1995)
CRB - for RS2 (1994 - 1996)
DGU - for S6+ (1997)
CBM - for V8 (1991 - 1994)
CBN - for V8 (1991 - 1994)
CYB - for A8 (1998)
DGV - for A8 (1994-1998)
DPJ - for 2.5L turbo diesel
DQT - for 2.5L turbo diesel notes
Characteristic
---------------
narrow
wide
narrow, hardened
wide, hardened
driveshaft -
Teeth
-----
32+28
32+29
33+30
32+26*
has 4th + 3rd ratios cut
Transmission Code
--------------
CET/CBD
CMG - EDU
CBL - DGU
DQT
on hollow shaft.
Part # suffix
-------------
925 A
925 C
925 D
925 G
Notes
------------------
Middle housing (end plate) - showing switch to wide 1st gear w/ 211B housing
Part #
01E 301 211
01E 301 211 B
01E 301 211 B
Application
5/6 Spd
5/6 Spd
6 Spd
Notes
CGR >>77643 CET/CBL/CMG >>79444
CGR 77644>> CET/CBL/CMG 79445>> all CRB
EDU
Endhousing (cover) (5th & 6th area) - showing S2 and RS2 difference
-------------
01E 301 231 J
01E 301 231 L
01E 301 231 N
--------
5/6 Spd
6 Spd
6 Spd
------------
All
CGR/CRB
EDU
------------------
S4 / S6 / V8 / A8
S2 / RS2
S4tt / A6tt
Cover for gearshift rod (mounts backup light switch) - showing difference for S2 and RS2
-------------
01E 301 453 C
01E 301 453 D
01E 301 453 F
--------
5/6 Spd
6 Spd
6 Spd
------------
All
CGR/CRB
EDU
------------------
S4 / S67 / V8 / A8
S2 / RS2
Bell housing (case) - showing differences for V8 / V6tt engines
-------------
01E 301 103
01E 301 103 A
01E 301 103 J
01E 301 103 K
--------
5/6 Spd
6 Spd
6 Spd
6 Spd
------------
CET/CBL
CMG/CBM/CBN
DGV
EDU
------------------
5 Cyl.
V8
A8 V8
2.7L V6 tt
Axle and Driveshaft Flanges are all the same part #s.
================================================== ===============
DISCUSSION ON 1ST GEAR VARIATIONS, AND 6 SPEEDS IN GENERAL:
================================================== ===============
Q. What are the variations on 1st gear in the 01E transmission?
A. Basically, there was the original type 1st (mainshaft part # 01E 311 105 G), the hardened 1st ( ... 105 E) and the wide 1st ( ... 105 H). The 105G was the 1st gear originally used in the lower HP cars, which included all of the '92 - '95 US and Canada cars with a 5 speed, and European 6 speed cars with AAN engines during the same period. During this early period, the V8 cars and the S2's had a hardened mainshaft for 1st gear, this is the 105E. The higher horepower cars like the RS2 had yet a different mainshaft, with a wider gear for 1st. This wider 1st mainshaft (105H) gradually migrated into all of the other 6 speed cars, somewhere around late 1995 or early 1996.
Q. Why should I buy a used six speed when I can buy a new one from Blau?
A. As of 3/22/2000, Blau does not have any available and has no firm dates on any becoming available. The Blau transmission is a CBL which does not have a hardened main shaft like the S2 or RS2. The Blau transmission is around $4500. Also, you don't know for certain if the Blau transmission has the wider first gear unless you get the serial number in advance.
Q. What's this talk about the wider first gear?
A. There is a problem with the early 01E series of transmissions. First gear is not wide enough for the loads that a turbo can produce under some situations. This has happened in both chipped and non-chipped cars. Audi made the RS2 transmission with a wider first gear to handle the increased torque. This change then made it into the S2 in late 1994 and finally into the S6 in June of 1995. If your S6 was a June '95 build date or later, you should check your transmission serial number to see if it is "CBD 79445" or above. If so, you have the wider first gear. One lister has destroyed first gear in three transmissions. He says he has a list of other s-listers who have the same problem. The author of this web page, Charlie Smith, personally experienced the problem. There is a description of the symptoms of the problem just below in this web page.
Q. How come the earlier Turbo Quattros with the 016 quattro transmission, in the 86 - 91 period, didn't have this problem. Isn't the 01E transmission supposed to be stronger?
A. There is a thought that this problem is related to the center Torsen differential, combined with inadequate 1st gear tooth surface strength. The thinking goes something like this ... as you break a front wheel loose under hard acceleration the Torsen differential locks and unlocks, causing a heavy shock load on the transmission. In 1st gear this shock loading puts very heavy pressure on the gear tooth surfaces, causing failure of the teeth.
What really happens is the surface of (probably) one tooth on 1st gear on the mainshaft becomes galled. If you have ever seen the inner race of a ball bearing that's failed - with very heavy pitting, that's what the failed first gear tooth looks like.
Note from Charlie Smith: A photo of the failed 1st gear teeth is at the bottom of this web page.
Another note: The above is only a theory - I'm told the UrQ got the Torsen worldwide in about '88 in the 016 transmission. So obviously the torsen center differential isn't the whole story.
Q. Do the S2 transmissions have the wider first gear?
A. Only the late model S2 transmissions, after serial number CGR 77644
Q. What the difference between the RS2 and the S2 transmissions?
A. Provided we're talking about the late model S2 versus the RS2, nothing except the code stamped on the outside. The RS2 transmission is code CRB and the S2 is code CGR. So if you use an S2, you lose bragging rights, but you're probably going to get a better price...
Q. Why don't I just get the parts directly from Europe or from Hoppen and rebuild my five speed into a six speed?
A. The center housing of the transmission is a different part for the wider first gear. Provided you were willing to give up the wider first gear, the best parts price anybody has gotten is $1900 (Steve Mills) and $3500 (Hoppen distributor). Most rebuilds reported on the s-list have cost at least $800 in labor (German Transaxle). Your car will have downtime, and you can't sell your old five speed on e-bay :-)
These prices are just for the 6 speed conversion parts. The parts to do a conversion to a wider 1st gear are probably another $1500 - $2000, and that's if you locally machine your center housing for clearance. I'm not sure it's feasible to machine this part, I'll update this information after some investigations.
Q. How do I know an RS2 or S2 transmission will fit and work correctly?
A. Several people have done the conversion and installed an RS2 or S2 transmission into a UrS4/S6.
Q. What about the new S4tt 6-speed transmissions?
A. Any wrecked S4tt is likely to get fixed or immediately purchased by an Audi tuner or racer. You'll be waiting a number of years before the supply is sufficient to get a reasonable price. The number of parts to change for the RS2 conversion is two. The number of parts to convert the S2 conversion is one. I don't know how many parts will be required to convert an S4tt transmission to fit in the UrS4/S6.
Q. What's the final drive ratio of the S4tt? Is it the same as the rear differential on the UrS4/S6?
A. Yes.
Q. Why can't I just buy a new S4tt 6-speed transmission from Audi? With estimates of $4500 to repair a transmission with a failed 1st gear, wouldn't it be cheaper to just buy a new one?
A. Per Carlsen Audi, the *dealer* cost on a complete new 6 speed S4tt transmission is $8300. Otherwise, it was an interesting idea.
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HOW CAN I TELL WHAT CODE TRANSMISSION I HAVE?
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How can I tell if I have a wide 1st gear?
Crawl under the car and look at the transmission serial number.
The number will be located on the bottom of the transmission right under the inner CV joint of the driveshaft for the left front wheel.
On the left side of the transmission, there is a side cover plate that's about 9" in diameter and it's bolted to the transmission with about 10 nuts. The flange that the CV joint fastens onto comes out through the middle of this side cover plate. The serial number is on the bottom of the transmission body, right under the bottom two nuts holding the side cover plate. It's on the bottom of the body, not the side plate.
The serial number will have the 3 letter code like "CBD"or "CBL" followed by 5 digits.
Check the 5 digit serial number with the numbers given above.
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SYMPTOMS OF FIRST GEAR FAILURE
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How can I tell if I have the problem?
A description of the symptoms in a '95 S6, with 56,000 miles on the odometer.
The noise began as a very faint tic, tic, tic noise - but just when beginning to move in 1st gear when the car was cold and when it was 20F or 25F degrees outside. Sort of like the noise you made as a kid by putting a playing card into the spokes of a bicycle, but not that loud. Since it was cold, of course the windows were rolled up.
I dismissed the noise, as perhaps being due to something that oil had not yet reached, because once I would shift into 2nd for a few feet, and then back into 1st - the noise would be gone. I would only hear it on the first motion ... when I would be traveling at 2 or 3 MPH in a parking lot with very light throttle.
Anyway, by the time I had driven another 2000 miles, the noise was quite apparent, particularily if I would drive away with the windows rolled down. On disassembly, the damage to 1st gear was quite apparent. The rubbing surface of one tooth on the mainshaft was very badly galled away.
1st gear failure, showing tooth galling Click on picture for enlarged photo.
During the period when the noise of the failure was developing, there no super fast starts, and certainly no wheel spinning starts. There was plenty of full throttle acceleration in first gear, but only after the clutch was fully out.
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WHAT CAN I DO ABOUT IT IF MY TRANSMISSION SOUNDS LIKE THIS?
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Here's a discussion of repair / replacement options for an 01E gearbox with a failing 1st gear.
a) the lowest cost repair:
Find an earlier 01E 5 speed that's got a bad pinion bearing, the
mainshaft is probably still good. Probable cost $350 or so.
Have a shop pull the parts you need out of the other transmission
and use them to fix your transmission. Probable labor cost $600
to $1000 depending on who does it.
b) Have someone buy the minimum parts you need in Germany, or through
Linda at Carlsen Audi. Probable parts cost $1500 to $2000.
Have a shop use them to fix your transmission.
c) Find a good used 01E 5 speed and install it. I found two or three
in the $1500 to $2500 range. That's with your bad transmission
in exchange. Consider, you don't really know what you are getting
until after it's installed.
d) Find a used 6 speed and install it. Be careful, since not all of
them have a hardened 1st gear or the wide 1st gear. See 6 speed
discussion below. Also, see above in this web page, this
lists serial numbers that will have the wide 1st gear.
e) Encourage Peter Blaser to get going on the group buy of 6 speed
S2 transmissions.
f) Another option on a 6 speed, I can call about one or two that
I located when I was searching for one for my car. My guess
is that one will have to be found and imported from Europe.
--------------------
6 speed discussion: Also, if you are buying it from Europe and importing it be aware the V8's have a different bell housing / differential housing part. The RS2/S2 gearboxes have a different rear housing. The labor to install your rear housing on a RS2/S2 isn't too bad, the labor to swap the bell housing part would be substantial and you'd either end up using considerable parts out of your transmission to go with your bell housing/differential housing or you would probably have to replace bearings and certainly would have to measure and replace adjustment shims - my view is that the V8 versions would be prohibitively expensive to convert and you might wait a long time trying to order some of the bearings and shims. An independant shop almost certainly wouldn't have a supply of shims on hand, and if they didn't I wouldn't let them do it anyway.
Probable cost on a 6 speed is $3200 - $3800 *without* conversion of the rear housing. One converted RS2 with shipping and with my old transmission in exchange would have been $4500. I went for one that had not been converted and paid $3800 which included shipping. I then had the dealer that diagnosed / disassembled my 5 speed pull the rear housing off the RS2 gearbox and put on the parts from my 5 speed. The total labor from the dealer was $900, which included removal, disassembly of the 5 speed, storage at no charge inside their garage for almost 3 months, conversion of the RS2 gearbox, and reinstallation and testing.
A note on doing the dissassembly / repair yourself, or through a friendly garage who has never done an 01E transmission. I've worked on Porsches for 30+ years, and have done many, over maybe 50, Porsche gearboxes. At one point I was doing them often enough that I built my own special tools to set up the adjustment dimensions, and I bought a complete set of all the various shims so I would have exactly the shim I needed to get the right adjustment on something. The Porsche transaxle is quite complicated to correctly assemble. For a while back in the early '70s I was racing a Porsche 911 in SCCA races. I was taking the transmission apart to change gear ratios every month or so.
The Audi Quattro transmission, any of them, has all the adjustment complications of the Porsche gearbox plus quite a bit more rather specific adjustments. The point being that the Audi quattro gearbox will need a set of special tools similar to that of the Porsche, plus several others.
I have considered making the special tools needed for the 01E gearbox, to that end I've kept the bad gearbox that came out of my car, so I can use it to measure and build the tools needed to adjust it for reassembly. Until I've made at least a few of the tools, I wouldn't consider trying to do it myself even on my own gearbox. Remember, if it isn't quite right, you've got to pull it back out and do it over again. If it isn't adjusted exactly right, it may have whines that will lead to early failure, or it may not shift right, or any of several other difficulties. Pulling the Quattro gearbox is not the easiest one around. It's quite heavy, you have front axles plus the driveshaft, and the exhaust has to come off so you've got room to remove it.
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