For those with bearing axial play in the Mance Mounts I have some good news...
01-18-2006, 10:23 AM
#1
AudiWorld Super User
Thread Starter
For those with bearing axial play in the Mance Mounts I have some good news...
as of tomorrow I will have sufficient quantities of new or used "exchange unit" mounts with new, higher rated "F1" spherical bearings/teflon liners. This is the latest/greatest bearing from my manufacturer and one which has shown zero failures in testing to-date. It is a "harder" tougher teflon and able to take far higher loads without taking a set or being hammered flat. It was not even available before VERY recently and comes about largely as a result of "our" problems/concerns with the Mance Mounts. It also under-goes a tighter manufacturing tolerance with higher/more stringent series of testing before it leaves the factory and "every" unit is tested rather than a "random test" of 1 or 2 from batches which is how the original ones were done. All mounts converted to these will be engraved "F1" on their under-side to assist tracking future issues. And no mount will leave here with anything "other" than F1 bearings EVER again! Anyone who needs a new bearing(s) will be receiving this upgrade free of charge as well as free return shipping. However my manufacturer will NOT replace any bearing that doesnt exhibit "need" so if you're not "clunking" there's nothing I can do for you warranty-wise. You cannot just submit a bearing for warranty because all this sounds so good. If its not clunking there is zero perceptable difference bewteen the new bearing and what you have now. EVERY mount sent will be checked/tested for noise! And you're welcomed and encouraged to return "pairs" with only one bad bearing and get "both" replaced free. But if yours arent clunking in at least one mount you'll be "purchasing" new bearings (at about $118 EACH! as thats what I get to pay without a returned set with at least one bad bearing) and you'll pay return shipping. But trust I'll be here for you when/if the phenomenon occurs. Or I'll be dead in which case I'd gladly swap issues with you ;-)
The exchange basis allows you to not remove your existing strut mounts and re-install OEM ones while I replace the bearings in your old set. This method allows you to receive "preiously used" mounts that have been "completely" inspected/scrutinized and gone thru by me and had their bearings replaced with F1 bearings. Every mount received and used as an exchange unit has under-gone ultra-sonic cleaning and been checked sonically for cracks and fracturing as well threads checked in all mounting bores and "spec'd" interference fit of the bearing into the mount its pressed into. Only "if" they are 100% in all areas will they be considered for re-use as "certified/guaranteed" exchange units.
To get in on the exchange basis you "must" forward a refundable deposit of $395 via Paypal and ear-marked as "strut mount exchange deposit" per "replacement pair" payable at time of ordering a replacement set. Upon receipt of your old bearings in "re-useable condition" I will refund your deposit. However, and this is CRITICAL; you MUST have your old mounts back to me no later than within 30 days of receiving the exchange pair or risk being asessed normal Paypal fees and a 2% per-day penalty of the deposit amount. I have to do that to insure people dont take their time with these as they will be holding others up on their warranty problems and there is a VERY limited number of "exchange units" available at any time. If you cant make the deadline then wait til you can pull that trigger comfortably! And NO mounts or bearings can or will be done one a "1-up basis." All warranty work MUST be performed on "pairs" as my manufacturer MUST receive "pairs" of bearings back and not one-at-a-time for me to be reimbursed. They and I want ANY/ALL known bad bearings out of your mounts and in our hands even if only 1 in your pair is making noise! Additionally we want ONLY F1 bearings in any/all mounts that are clunking.
The exchange basis allows you to not remove your existing strut mounts and re-install OEM ones while I replace the bearings in your old set. This method allows you to receive "preiously used" mounts that have been "completely" inspected/scrutinized and gone thru by me and had their bearings replaced with F1 bearings. Every mount received and used as an exchange unit has under-gone ultra-sonic cleaning and been checked sonically for cracks and fracturing as well threads checked in all mounting bores and "spec'd" interference fit of the bearing into the mount its pressed into. Only "if" they are 100% in all areas will they be considered for re-use as "certified/guaranteed" exchange units.
To get in on the exchange basis you "must" forward a refundable deposit of $395 via Paypal and ear-marked as "strut mount exchange deposit" per "replacement pair" payable at time of ordering a replacement set. Upon receipt of your old bearings in "re-useable condition" I will refund your deposit. However, and this is CRITICAL; you MUST have your old mounts back to me no later than within 30 days of receiving the exchange pair or risk being asessed normal Paypal fees and a 2% per-day penalty of the deposit amount. I have to do that to insure people dont take their time with these as they will be holding others up on their warranty problems and there is a VERY limited number of "exchange units" available at any time. If you cant make the deadline then wait til you can pull that trigger comfortably! And NO mounts or bearings can or will be done one a "1-up basis." All warranty work MUST be performed on "pairs" as my manufacturer MUST receive "pairs" of bearings back and not one-at-a-time for me to be reimbursed. They and I want ANY/ALL known bad bearings out of your mounts and in our hands even if only 1 in your pair is making noise! Additionally we want ONLY F1 bearings in any/all mounts that are clunking.
01-18-2006, 11:12 AM
#2
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All **** aside Mance...
I exhibit this in atleast 2 of the bearings I use at all 4 corners of the CQ. I will be tkaing the car apart int he coming weeks, and if it is ok with you, I will be sending back all 4 to be done since I have 2 already doing this (1 per pair technically). I am assuming this will negate the neccessity for me to send you a deposit, correct?
01-18-2006, 12:08 PM
#3
AudiWorld Super User
Thread Starter
Long as I have bearing "pairs" to get reimbursed with it doesnt matter to me...
But (this is carved-in-stone) make sure 2 are knocking when sending 4 back or I cant cover you. And for anyone who might consider taking a ball-peen hammer to one or both they're way ahead of ya. They have in-house test equipment that will reveal a hammer-blow in a heartbeat among other things that they wont tell me (I asked). Apparently they've heard that one before and have serious spectral magnification-equipment in their labs to rule out such things. They've even invited me to try to dupe them with a known-good mount mixed in with some bad ones. Just the forensic possibilities from TV is enough to keep me honest.
But yeah I know, it was my first thought too ;-)
Deposit is "ONLY" required when doing the "exchange program."
But yeah I know, it was my first thought too ;-)
Deposit is "ONLY" required when doing the "exchange program."
01-18-2006, 01:27 PM
#7
AudiWorld Super User
Thread Starter
figure of speech. Could be ball peen, claw, framing, tack or jack hammer
The friend who was just here and I were discussing this and arrived at what is likely a test they would have for this particular instance.
Our thoughts are as follws:
All of my mounts are installed at a given orientation regardless of front or rear. Given that it is also the case that the bearing races I use in these never moves as it is a high-pressure fit into the lower housing which is then screwed up into the upper housing at very high torque, ie; over 300ft lbs and then further anchored at the top of the strut tower via mount screws. The teflon and the steel race its bonded to NEVER budges but the spherical ball does!
Given the above it must be assumed and is verified by multiple bearing disassemblies that the spherical bearing "race" (the part that the teflon is bonded to) does not move and relies on the spherical "ball" to move within the race. That means the teflon is "always" in the same place (orientation) regardless of what the spherical ball is doing.
On front mounts that will leave a "primary/major" wear pattern in the teflon with the wheels pointed straight ahead. It will also leave a "secondary/minor" wear pattern that is formed when the front wheels transition thru an arc (turn) left or right as the wheels are turned for steering.
On rear mounts the same rules apply but without steering input. This allows for only 1 major wear pattern in rear mounts teflon liner.
Over days or weeks these wear patterns become prominent and easy to see in the teflon. Now imagine one was removed and had its spherical bearing "hammered." This would leave a highly visible and deeper "single-spot" indentation in the teflon that is virtually GUARANTEED to NOT be in the same spot as the primary or secondary wear patterns. In this case it would be an obvious "tamper" situation. Compounded by the fact that the "hammer spot" is on top of any/all wear patterns. Even if mounts were rotated every week clock-wise or CCW via their mounting screws the "hammered" indentation would still not likely fall within ANY of the 4 prominent wear patterns unless it was "fixtured" in an ultra-close tolerance jig or fixture like those used in CNCing with the EXACT geometry of your car.
Then there's the dealing with suspension and when it bottoms out and what that does to the strut mount and its teflon liner. The impression it makes in the teflon as it relates to depth. All shocks have "some" measure of anti-bottoming out dampers employed inside/outside the shock. And all cars have a rubber tire between the solid mount and the ground. A "dampened" blow is way easy to distinguish from a metal-to-metal blow when measuring impact mark in a resiliant/pliable medium such as teflon.
Then there's the "last" indentation likely to be left if a bearings been hammered instead of driven on. How do you convince anyone you hit a bump then locked the wheels up and removed the strut bearing without moving an inch!?! And its a lot of work to "hammer" a strut mount then re-install it on the car so the wear pattern wipes over it a few weeks to cover your trail. But even then how do you explain the "wear" pattern again "not" being where the hammer-blow indentaion is "precisely" located?
And I know none of this as how someone would test but I know if we just thought of it then "big brother" prolly knows it too. And teflon is the PERFECT archival medium for retaining pressure-formed information. Just like a fingerprint in warm candle wax.
Our thoughts are as follws:
All of my mounts are installed at a given orientation regardless of front or rear. Given that it is also the case that the bearing races I use in these never moves as it is a high-pressure fit into the lower housing which is then screwed up into the upper housing at very high torque, ie; over 300ft lbs and then further anchored at the top of the strut tower via mount screws. The teflon and the steel race its bonded to NEVER budges but the spherical ball does!
Given the above it must be assumed and is verified by multiple bearing disassemblies that the spherical bearing "race" (the part that the teflon is bonded to) does not move and relies on the spherical "ball" to move within the race. That means the teflon is "always" in the same place (orientation) regardless of what the spherical ball is doing.
On front mounts that will leave a "primary/major" wear pattern in the teflon with the wheels pointed straight ahead. It will also leave a "secondary/minor" wear pattern that is formed when the front wheels transition thru an arc (turn) left or right as the wheels are turned for steering.
On rear mounts the same rules apply but without steering input. This allows for only 1 major wear pattern in rear mounts teflon liner.
Over days or weeks these wear patterns become prominent and easy to see in the teflon. Now imagine one was removed and had its spherical bearing "hammered." This would leave a highly visible and deeper "single-spot" indentation in the teflon that is virtually GUARANTEED to NOT be in the same spot as the primary or secondary wear patterns. In this case it would be an obvious "tamper" situation. Compounded by the fact that the "hammer spot" is on top of any/all wear patterns. Even if mounts were rotated every week clock-wise or CCW via their mounting screws the "hammered" indentation would still not likely fall within ANY of the 4 prominent wear patterns unless it was "fixtured" in an ultra-close tolerance jig or fixture like those used in CNCing with the EXACT geometry of your car.
Then there's the dealing with suspension and when it bottoms out and what that does to the strut mount and its teflon liner. The impression it makes in the teflon as it relates to depth. All shocks have "some" measure of anti-bottoming out dampers employed inside/outside the shock. And all cars have a rubber tire between the solid mount and the ground. A "dampened" blow is way easy to distinguish from a metal-to-metal blow when measuring impact mark in a resiliant/pliable medium such as teflon.
Then there's the "last" indentation likely to be left if a bearings been hammered instead of driven on. How do you convince anyone you hit a bump then locked the wheels up and removed the strut bearing without moving an inch!?! And its a lot of work to "hammer" a strut mount then re-install it on the car so the wear pattern wipes over it a few weeks to cover your trail. But even then how do you explain the "wear" pattern again "not" being where the hammer-blow indentaion is "precisely" located?
And I know none of this as how someone would test but I know if we just thought of it then "big brother" prolly knows it too. And teflon is the PERFECT archival medium for retaining pressure-formed information. Just like a fingerprint in warm candle wax.
