smorris

Hi all, noob here!

I have a 2002 Subaru Impreza WRX wagon, and I'm contemplating replacing it. So far on the list are the Subaru Legacy GT Limited and the Audi A3q when it becomes available. I know these are quite different animals, and both different than my WRX.

The WRX is my year 'round daily driver, except maybe 500-1000 miles a year in the MG. I'm in northern Ohio, so I have some snow and ice to contend with. I'm a "spirited" driver, and autocross 6-10 times a year locally in the SCCA STX class.

My WRX is slightly modified for power (maybe 260HP vs. stock 225) and moderately modified for handling. Appearance-wise, it is a subtle sleeper.

I have driven the Legacy. A Pittsburgh dealer had some at the Subaru Challenge last fall for us to wail on around the autocross course. Automatics, unfortunately. Then I tested a manual locally, and found it in stock form to be bigger and heavier than my WRX, with more body roll and understeer. (Well, no kidding!) The torque from the extra 1/2 liter of engine, though, is nice to have on hand! STi springs, larger adjustable sway bar, and a short shifer would make a good start to bring a Legacy into a fun handling car. However, because of its size and heft, it loses that "tossability" factor, as the magazines like to say about nimble cars, that the WRX has. All in all, I think that if I didn't already have the WRX when I tested the LGT, I'd probably own one now.

I have not driven an A3. I did look at them at the dealership, and was surprised by the size of them. It is a larger car than I expected. I think I was expecting a WRX sized car. I was also surprised to find it so luxurious. I was expecting it to be an entry level Audi, well below the quality of materials the A4 offers. I was short on time, so I didn't take one out. And I didn't want to drive a FronTrack car when it wouldn't be what I would get, anyway. (Like many, I'm really disappointed there won't be a manual 2.0T quattro, nor a manual 3.2...)

So I came here and searched in the A3 forum for "WRX" and found very few threads, many from well before the A3 was even a sure thing for the US. Most dealt with the Saabaru, or STi. I also only found 10 posts containing "autocross."

So my questions are, how "tossable" and nimble is the A3? It is a heavy car with less power than the WRX. Is it more of a highway tourer than a "sports car?" (I *know* the WRX wagon is not a sports car.)

No one autocrosses the A3 yet? If so, tell me about it. How does it compare to other cars you've autocrossed, and how did you fare against others in your class?

Thanks in advance for any thoughts. If anyone here owned a WRX before your A3, I'd especially like to hear your comments.

Steve<ul><li><a href="http://www.morrisgarage.com">Here's what's currently in the garage.</a></li></ul>

qfrog Ti20

that is the drivetrain we are getting for the A3 quattro. It will feel a lot like that.

RikiTik

I have heard from some folks that the DSG is incredible for Auto-X.

BlueWorld

Given the scale of most S2 courses, DSG will always be an advantage. DSG offers enough of an advantage that it won't surprise me when the SCCA catches on and creates a separate category.

Unless you can regularly and smoothly shift under race conditions without needing to use your clutch, and have paddle shifters, DSG is a tremendous advantage.

TravisW

(Long, and full of personal opinions....don't shoot me)

I haven't autocrossed my car yet, but I have autocrossed the following cars:

'03 Mini S (STX)
'02 Miata 6 speed (CS)
'01 BMW 325Ci (STS)
'00 BMW Z3 (BS)
'98 BMW 318ti (BMWCCA and DSP)
'87 BMW 325is (STX)

In order of outright fastest lap times (never mind classing) the MINI was by far the quickest, and the Z3 the most fun. I expect this car to be slower than all of them but the 325Ci.

My A3 is still totally stock, a premium package car with DSG. There are two things that concern me about how well this car will autocross -

The car is VERY heavy. Right now I'm still on the (awful) Pirelli P6s, and the handling characteristics when you really push it are interesting. It will surely plow under power, but is fairly neutral in steady state cornering. Where I'm most concerned is in slaloms/lane changes/chicago boxes, because as it is right now, you can really feel the weight of the back of the car swinging around behind you.

I figure it will take springs, sways, better tires, and possibly shocks (I'm not sure the stock shocks will handle the lowering springs without bottoming out too often) to get it tightened up. But then, you've done that to your WRX also, I'm sure, so no big deal there.

Regarding the DSG, I'm concerned about launching it quickly (I just don't know the procedure at this point) and I'm a little worried that it auto-upshifts at the rev-limiter even in manual mode. Although, it is so easy to downshift quickly that that might actually turn out to be an advantage.

I hope they include the frontrack car in STS like they have the 1.8t VW/Audis, because it STX, this car won't have a chance even locally, in my opinion. In STS I think I might be able to trophy locally.

Vs a WRX (several friends have them) the A3 is much nicer, quieter, and feels more solid. (which you pay for in increased weight). The quattro will likely be a little heavier still, and I think that is a concern.

But I really like this car!

smorris

Thanks guys!

Our courses around here are usually of the one-shift variety. Get it into second, and go. Rarely is there a need for first after the start. The WRX hits 63 in second, and we don't have pavement where I need more than that.

There are rare occasions where it is more advantagious to bounce off the rev limiter in first rather than shift to second and then back for a tight section, or bog second all the way through. This seems where DSG would be an advantage and disadvantage. I surely don't want it to decide on its own to shift into second, when what I really want is to stay at redline for a second or so. But it would be easier to shift back down into first if that is what I needed.

From Travis' description above, it sounds like my concerns on the mass of the car may have merit. The A3 still sounds a lot less nimble than I was hoping for both autocross an daily fun driving. Maybe the quattro will help, come spring time. Of course the same holds true with the LGT, and I could do the same suspension modifications as the WRX. But spending a couple grand to modify a $21k WRX is easier than a $27k LGT or a $33k 3.2q!

Thanks, and any more thoughts are certainly welcome.
Steve

smorris

I understand that the drivetrain will be similar, but I don't know about the driving dynamics. Lower CG and a 6" shorter wheelbase bake a big difference.

I was also surprised to see how much heavier the 3.2 TT couple is than the 1.8t

1.8 3000#
1.8tq 3200#
3.2q 3400#

So that means the 3300# A3 2.0t should be around 3500# in 3.2q form. I don't think that includes all the glass in the skyview, either.

I don't know. Guess I'll have to drive one and see!

Thanks

smorris

No more comments? Nobody's autocrossing this car?

smorris

Ummm... Thanks...