nickuk

Great engine over 6000 and up to 9000, but totally inpractical to use outside a track - In the real world S3 would remain faster despite the performance figures - It's torque that counts not top end power
Chassis fine in the dry, more fun than S3 but not as safe obviously.
Ride/Comfort/dampers = harsh and very short travel ; not as comfy and relaxing as S3. Very stiff though, especially for a roadster
Interior = decent seats - good position but miles behind in terms of design and "prestige".
Overall I would not see the point to depart from my S3 despite technical innovations and natural beauty of exterior.
Next target = BMW 330d despite image -
Anyone having tested any of these two cars ?
Thanks
Nick

David R

and although mine is standard 150bhp a3, it took a hell of a long time for the two (especially the accord) to make up ground and pass on the straights - not very impressive (corners were something else though)

David R

point it that even on track the figures don't reflect their performance, they have no torque at all low down and having spoken to the guy with the accord afterwards he said that even if you change at the red line, the gearing is such that you drop revs below the VTEC line and lose power, if you fluff your change (as he admitted to often) you have no change of full performance...

Great 2nd car the s2000 - but i agree - i'd rather have an s3/tt

Nick, I know a good psychiatrist who will cure your diesel fascination!

David - 2000 A3 1.8TS (Bubbled Michelins and Wilted Brakes!)

ravenx

<p><a href="http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/audis3"><img SRC="http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/AudiWorldPics/2000/ravenx_glow.GIF" BORDER=0></a>

paul ag-audi

and lots of attractive ladies around me ))

S4TT

<p>Jason audi.
Nogaro/S4 onyx/blue alcantara

David R

Having an identity crisis S4/TT

nickuk

As much as I respect the UK widespread anti-diesel prejudice, being originally from the continent (whatever that means) I am fortunately not suffering from it (or from any other typically British prejudice apart from Frogs not having a sense of humour and smelling of garlic on a permanent basis). This is in no way a judgement of value otherwise I would not have chosen to live here.
The only problem is that, like being agaimst the Euro is not an option anymore simply because IT IS HERE and not being in it would be suicidal (whatever the legitimate criticism against it), fast clean diesel are BETTER then their equivalently powered petrol as driver cars, and no where more than on busy UK roads where low dowmn torque is crucial. 330d= 390Nm at 1750 rpm.
The rest of Europe has understood and diesel is now the norm for sporty road cars, up to a £30,000 (Uk prices) price point, after which petrol still rules.
Anyway, I simply chose my S3 as the character of the engine is to me and with the way I drive very similar to a super diesel, that did not exist before the 330d.

Even EVO mag (not really a diesel orientated publication is it ?) agree with this.

I am not even mentionnning economy...

Have you driven 330d David ?

David R

I have driven many TD cars (sadly not the 330d but I am open minded and would give it a go) but fundamentally I conclude that I don't like the character of a diesel engine.

I agree that the Audi 1.8T in its different forms is similar to a good diesel engine but diesels ultimately fall down in my opinion due to the narrow power band. I love my 1.8T and I did drive it alongside a Golf 110TDI and A4 2.5V6 TDI at the time I bought the car. I accept that the 330d engine has some fabulous write ups but... I like being able to accelerate in 3rd gear from 15mph all the way to 105mph, I like the sound, the smoothness, but ultimately the rev range and flexibility. I don't want to change gear when, for example, overtaking a line of trucks on a country road, I start to pass at 50mph (in third) and by the time I have completed the manouvre I am probably reaching the red line at 100mph (but no delay to upchange) No diesel engine matches this flexibility. Plus, having driven the AmD reprogrammed 1.8T at 190+ bhp I must say that the torque matches easilty the diesel competition.

I have driven no diesel engined car that makes me want to drive it hard, it is all too laid back. I also find that the power delivery is very non linear and you get an almighty thust followed by a quick peak of pull and then run out of power high up - again not ideally suited to my driving style and the roads I drive on regularly (we have lots of pedestrian drivers and very few dual carriageways in Scotland)

Economy - there is another interesting point - yep at a steady crusing speed a petrol engine cannot keep close to a diesel - but when you get your clog down the difference is much less than many may think - I averaged 27ish mpg in an A4 TDI which at roughly the same speed in the A4 1.8T I tested on the same route I got 25ish mpg. In particular BMWs have been critisised in the past for poor fuel consumption figures in diesel applications - bottom line - you don't buy a sporty diesel for economy - when the cost of the 330dSE is only £1K cheaper than the 330iSE and its claimed av fuel consuption is <10mpg different with the huge difference in performance - I know where my cash would go! Forgive me for not having figures for the 330d, but Car magazine recently tested the 320d touring and it recorded a mixed average of 40mpg, roughly 10mpg less than the manufacterers claim - this I would estimate would put the 330d at about 30mpg (which is not that impressive - but I accept that it would be better than the petrol equiv)

I beleive strongly that there is a huge and valuable market for diesel cars - the continent is a screamingy obvious example - I must say if I was not so enthusiastic about my car I would buy a derv if in France. However, to combine sporty and diesel together misses the point. If you are spending the thick end of £30K on a sporty car, you buy the new 330i IMO, you won't bother about fuel economy and price difference. If however you are after a prestige car to drive up and down motorways all day the 330d fits the bill well (but there is not much wrong with the 320d for that purpose). A good diesel gives bags of low end torque and efortless grunt and combined with the new generation auto boxes is ideal for efortless trasportation - however, a good turbo petrol is every bit as flexible, more powerfull and long legged and not that short on mpg (i'm averaging 34mpg on my hard driven A3 1.8TS)

Enviroment - another biggie - a diesel engine produces masses more particuates than a petrol (with vertually none) These particulates are carcinogenic, and have shown in studies to have a direct relationship to intrinsic asthma and other lung disease. In the grand scheme of things, you can argue about C02 emissions and suchlike but I know which one is going to affect me first! Modern petrol engines (in particular 20v VAG engines) are one of the cleanest engines around and with regards the local environment are much safer.

Finally, and forgive me for being verbose, image. Why do we buy one car over another - all audi drivers, when not buy a VW or Skoda- it is every bit as competant, cheaper, often better equipped etc etc. The reason - image - and please don't deny it cos I won't believe you Image takes a big bashing when you have a clattering diesel engine at idle (they all do it even the 330d i've heard it!) and a puff of sooty smoke when driving enthusiastically - a tell tale sign on a heavy right foot.

I have thought about diesels long and hard and they are not for me - I can envisage that they may become the fuel of the future because one cannot deny their advancing nature - but hell, that is only my view.

I say to everyone have a drive, see what you think and drive what you enjoy - thats what I did - I may even try the 330d out of curiosity but past experience suggests that no matter how good, you cannot change the fundamental characteristics of the diesel engine - the dreaded narrow power band and low revability.

Let us know what you think after you drive it Nick - I for one will be very interested/

nickuk

Your points do make sense and I suppose my driving is not aggressive enough to make the most
of the ressources of a petrol engine, or maybe I am too lazy.
I'll update after 330D drive this weekend.
Optimistic MPG on diesel BMW worth noting : thanks.