Some REVO 93 testing that might be worth a look for some of you guys
10-10-2006, 03:50 AM
#1
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Some REVO 93 testing that might be worth a look for some of you guys
Would be interesting to hear alternative ideas.
Basically:
REVO runs excessively high EGTs with the 93 setting as outlined by the SPS controller.
REVO disabled an EGT hardware protection map that kicks the A/F ratio to run richer when excess EGTs are detected.
REVO NA recommends even more aggressive settings than the SPS.
REVO "stock mode" runs more aggressive timing and sees higher timing correction than "chipped 93 mode"
I used to be a big proponent of REVO, but it's hard to stand by them when I've logged evidence of poor tuning from my own car and a few other REVO 93 cars.
Dave<ul><li><a href="http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2860775">link to vortex thread</a></li></ul>
Basically:
REVO runs excessively high EGTs with the 93 setting as outlined by the SPS controller.
REVO disabled an EGT hardware protection map that kicks the A/F ratio to run richer when excess EGTs are detected.
REVO NA recommends even more aggressive settings than the SPS.
REVO "stock mode" runs more aggressive timing and sees higher timing correction than "chipped 93 mode"
I used to be a big proponent of REVO, but it's hard to stand by them when I've logged evidence of poor tuning from my own car and a few other REVO 93 cars.
Dave<ul><li><a href="http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2860775">link to vortex thread</a></li></ul>
10-10-2006, 06:47 AM
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That is exactly what I expected from them...Im sorry to hear that
REVO performs better than the rest but they take to many short cuts while tuning. Those are about the same high EGT's as my Revo GTRS File.
Are you gonna stick with the software or go a new route?
Are you gonna stick with the software or go a new route?
10-10-2006, 07:11 AM
#3
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Already went APR.
It's ridiculous how much REVO lacks under 3k when you compare it to APR. My guess is that they cut low end torque as a quick way to solve the low fuel pressure issues at lower RPMs.
Dave
Dave
10-10-2006, 10:41 AM
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So where are your new graphs?
I went through the thread, and your summary is off base (or maybe based on a different thread?):
REVO runs excessively high EGTs with the 93 setting as outlined by the SPS controller.
- What do others run? How did you deem it excessive?
REVO disabled an EGT hardware protection map that kicks the A/F ratio to run richer when excess EGTs are detected.
- I did not see any proof of that, looking for George to comment.
REVO NA recommends even more aggressive settings than the SPS.
- REVO "stock mode" runs more aggressive timing and sees higher timing correction than "chipped 93 mode"
How do you know this is not true for OEM stock software. I again do not see any indication that Revo stock is not OEM stock.
I have more logs than you can imagine of REVO on virtually every setting and different Octane.
Here are some resonable tuning laws I go by and EVERYONE needs to understand:
1. Every car is different. My car for example has no issues with timing, I can run timing at 6, 7, and 8 on 92 Octane. My timing at 8 on 92 looks like your graph... CFs in single digits.
2. If you are going to use the SPS to set any settings above defaults, you must have VAG-COM to see how your car behaves. See #1.
3. I can find something wrong with every aftermarket part / software? Do you want an example of excessive (fill in the blank) caused by (fill in the blank)... just google it.
I will also add that every car chipped by StartupRacing is logged, and Revo parameters are set for that car and owner. The ability to do that is a key benefit of Revo. If you are looking for more conservative tune... run 5-5-9.... much easier than getting a new flash that locks you in. Or in other words, some people get springs / shocks that work fine out of the box but limit the user, and some get fully adjustable coilovers. Revo is akin to the fully adjustable coilovers which perform flawlessly when adjusted properly, and offer custom heigh and dampening settings, but can also be misadjusted...
I will try to post my logs later tonight. As you know, doing so takes quite a bit of work. And there are many MANY different factors. For example, you could have gotten a crappy batch of fuel...
REVO runs excessively high EGTs with the 93 setting as outlined by the SPS controller.
- What do others run? How did you deem it excessive?
REVO disabled an EGT hardware protection map that kicks the A/F ratio to run richer when excess EGTs are detected.
- I did not see any proof of that, looking for George to comment.
REVO NA recommends even more aggressive settings than the SPS.
- REVO "stock mode" runs more aggressive timing and sees higher timing correction than "chipped 93 mode"
How do you know this is not true for OEM stock software. I again do not see any indication that Revo stock is not OEM stock.
I have more logs than you can imagine of REVO on virtually every setting and different Octane.
Here are some resonable tuning laws I go by and EVERYONE needs to understand:
1. Every car is different. My car for example has no issues with timing, I can run timing at 6, 7, and 8 on 92 Octane. My timing at 8 on 92 looks like your graph... CFs in single digits.
2. If you are going to use the SPS to set any settings above defaults, you must have VAG-COM to see how your car behaves. See #1.
3. I can find something wrong with every aftermarket part / software? Do you want an example of excessive (fill in the blank) caused by (fill in the blank)... just google it.
I will also add that every car chipped by StartupRacing is logged, and Revo parameters are set for that car and owner. The ability to do that is a key benefit of Revo. If you are looking for more conservative tune... run 5-5-9.... much easier than getting a new flash that locks you in. Or in other words, some people get springs / shocks that work fine out of the box but limit the user, and some get fully adjustable coilovers. Revo is akin to the fully adjustable coilovers which perform flawlessly when adjusted properly, and offer custom heigh and dampening settings, but can also be misadjusted...
I will try to post my logs later tonight. As you know, doing so takes quite a bit of work. And there are many MANY different factors. For example, you could have gotten a crappy batch of fuel...
10-10-2006, 11:11 AM
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doesn't explain why the dealer is able to reflash over the software...
APR is encrypted, dealer is locked out. GIAC is working (may be available) on a similar premise.
REVO is able to flashed over.
Don't get too caught up with it now, but the number of software flashes is stored on the ECU.
REVO may be the best answer for someone looking to wring every ounce of hp out of their engine. And judging by GIAC response on vortex on the Eurotuner test thread in the 2.0t forum, they may have the best software for racing, as they stated nothing about reliabilty, daily drive-ability or lifetime of the engine, only their racing heritage.
I'd say if you're happy with it, then thumbs up.
REVO is able to flashed over.
Don't get too caught up with it now, but the number of software flashes is stored on the ECU.
REVO may be the best answer for someone looking to wring every ounce of hp out of their engine. And judging by GIAC response on vortex on the Eurotuner test thread in the 2.0t forum, they may have the best software for racing, as they stated nothing about reliabilty, daily drive-ability or lifetime of the engine, only their racing heritage.
I'd say if you're happy with it, then thumbs up.
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10-10-2006, 12:01 PM
#9
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Tomasz, I have logs from 3 different cars showing the same thing.
And a fourth coming along the way as soon as he receives my old SPS plus and the VAG-COM he has ordered.
APR is running ~760C at redline. Mike (bhvrdr) produced those graphs.
EGT hardware protection map was demonstrated by GIAC in a previous vortex thread. Went from 11.5 and kicked it back to 10.5 when it reached a cruicial point.
I was maxing out the primary O2 at 900C for four consecutive runs and my A/F ratio never deviated from 12.5. Not to mention, I have it on good word that REVO does disable the hardware protection map. The fact that you don't know also highlights the deficiencies of REVO NA in getting information out to their distributors.
All the logs of true stock software have very little timing correction. Not to mention, REVO "stock" feels much more aggressive than true OEM stock.
I believe you have plenty of logs, however it all depends on how broad those logs are. Typically for tuning, you look at timing & boost. I did more and that's where I saw the issues. I did plenty of timing & boost logs in the months prior to my latest log.
Dave
APR is running ~760C at redline. Mike (bhvrdr) produced those graphs.
EGT hardware protection map was demonstrated by GIAC in a previous vortex thread. Went from 11.5 and kicked it back to 10.5 when it reached a cruicial point.
I was maxing out the primary O2 at 900C for four consecutive runs and my A/F ratio never deviated from 12.5. Not to mention, I have it on good word that REVO does disable the hardware protection map. The fact that you don't know also highlights the deficiencies of REVO NA in getting information out to their distributors.
All the logs of true stock software have very little timing correction. Not to mention, REVO "stock" feels much more aggressive than true OEM stock.
I believe you have plenty of logs, however it all depends on how broad those logs are. Typically for tuning, you look at timing & boost. I did more and that's where I saw the issues. I did plenty of timing & boost logs in the months prior to my latest log.
Dave
