Well, I'm officially out of the Audi loop
06-09-2007, 09:22 AM
#1
AudiWorld Super User
Thread Starter
Well, I'm officially out of the Audi loop
The customer service (or lack thereof) that I received from Audi, particularly AoA, after pulling the bait-and-switch on my seats was appalling.
I'm sad, becase they really are great cars, fun to drive, and gorgeous (in my opinion).
On the bright side, I took ownership of my new Infiniti M35 today, and my butt is insanely happy. Definitely a better choice for me on the daily commute (I will miss the A3's ability to sneak into tight openings on the highway with two clicks of the DSG's paddle!
)
All the best,
Josh
I'm sad, becase they really are great cars, fun to drive, and gorgeous (in my opinion).
On the bright side, I took ownership of my new Infiniti M35 today, and my butt is insanely happy. Definitely a better choice for me on the daily commute (I will miss the A3's ability to sneak into tight openings on the highway with two clicks of the DSG's paddle!
)All the best,
Josh
06-09-2007, 11:48 AM
#2
One thing has me scratching my head......
You said you test drove cars with both sport and premium seats, right? And you chose a car with premium seats right?
So what is making me scratch my head is why it's the Audi dealer's fault for not taking back what is now a used car and giving you a brand new one based on a customer's choice. Or AoA for not exchanging/retrofitting large and expensive parts on a car after a sale based on buyer's remorse and no real fault with the car.
There must be some aspect I am missing. I know you were talking with AoA about the possibility of exchanging the seats, but wasn't sure you got something in writing. Maybe I missed a post somewhere?
In any case I wish you well with the M.
So what is making me scratch my head is why it's the Audi dealer's fault for not taking back what is now a used car and giving you a brand new one based on a customer's choice. Or AoA for not exchanging/retrofitting large and expensive parts on a car after a sale based on buyer's remorse and no real fault with the car.
There must be some aspect I am missing. I know you were talking with AoA about the possibility of exchanging the seats, but wasn't sure you got something in writing. Maybe I missed a post somewhere?
In any case I wish you well with the M.
06-09-2007, 07:27 PM
#3
AudiWorld Super User
Thread Starter
Yes, the first part is not accurate
The car I test drove for any length of time was one with the sport package.
I was then told by the dealer that if I got the Premium package, I would get an electric seat instead, and that the seat was *otherwise not different*, only an upgrade with more ability to adjust.
When I took delivery, I briefly drove my car around the block, and did notice the seat was a bit uncomfortable, but assumed this was because I'd not gotten it into the right position yet (since the seats were supposedly no different from my last two A4s or the A3 I originally test drove).
A few days later I started talking to a doctor about serious leg pain I was having, and they determined it was from the car seat. This was clearly not right, and contacted both the dealer and AoA to try and figure out why I was having problems that I did not have in either of my A4s or the A3 I test drove. The AoA representative also stated that the seats were no different, but suggested that perhaps my seat was defective, and could be replaced with another.
Days later, with much back-and-forth, I finally convinced the service manager at the dealership (who also stated the seats were no different) to come outside and have me sit in both the premium and sport seats in A3s. He was in shock that they were different in any way, and even measured them to ensure I wasn't pushing myself forward in the premium seat to simulate reduced thigh support.
At this point, the service manager began pursuing the retrofit attempt, and the dealership refused to exchange the car, even though they acknowledged telling me the seats were identical.
AoA refused to assist in any way, because the seats I had were built according to spec for the premium package, and told me to take it up with the dealer.
The dealer, on the otherhand, would not assist because the information they claim to have from Audi says the seats are not different (and hence they did not mislead me from their point of view).
Maybe others see it differently, but I feel I was extremely misled by Audi (whether by the dealer or AoA depends on who's story you believe).
I am not one to complain about things or make a huge fuss. When my 2001 A4 lost coilpacks every 5000 miles I didn't even say a word until around coilpack #7... .
I accept the fact that I screwed up by taking a dealer's word at face value. It was stupid, and the only reason I believed him without another thought was because I assumed all three Audis really would fit basically the same. (I was also told by two seperate dealers that the A3 had the same driver-side dimensions as the A4, and that all of the size differences were due to space taken from the trunk).
It was an expensive life lesson, but I still maintain that a company like Audi should do more for the customer than simply give him the finger when they sell a product that does not live up to the claims made. Any other product would have some warranty -- an ergonomic office chair that turned out to cause back problems after an hour of sitting could be returned. It's unfortunate that vehicles do not have a similar warranty.
I know a number of people who have, on occasion, had some 'personal' difficulty with a car -- in all of those cases, the car companies have taken back the 2 or 3 day old car and exchanged it for a different one without any complaint. That is the kind of customer service I would expect from a luxury car company like Audi. The car had under 100 miles on it when this all started -- the least they could have done would have been to take it back for the sale price and just had me eat the sales tax. Instead they took an extra $6000.
This was by no means buyer's remorse -- I loved that A3, and I still miss it. It was so much fun to drive. But I'm also not going to pop vicodin for 5 years to deal with nerve problems in order to have that fun.
I'm glad it's not a universal problem, so that all of you can enjoy your A3s. But I doubt I will get back into an Audi after all of this.
I was then told by the dealer that if I got the Premium package, I would get an electric seat instead, and that the seat was *otherwise not different*, only an upgrade with more ability to adjust.
When I took delivery, I briefly drove my car around the block, and did notice the seat was a bit uncomfortable, but assumed this was because I'd not gotten it into the right position yet (since the seats were supposedly no different from my last two A4s or the A3 I originally test drove).
A few days later I started talking to a doctor about serious leg pain I was having, and they determined it was from the car seat. This was clearly not right, and contacted both the dealer and AoA to try and figure out why I was having problems that I did not have in either of my A4s or the A3 I test drove. The AoA representative also stated that the seats were no different, but suggested that perhaps my seat was defective, and could be replaced with another.
Days later, with much back-and-forth, I finally convinced the service manager at the dealership (who also stated the seats were no different) to come outside and have me sit in both the premium and sport seats in A3s. He was in shock that they were different in any way, and even measured them to ensure I wasn't pushing myself forward in the premium seat to simulate reduced thigh support.
At this point, the service manager began pursuing the retrofit attempt, and the dealership refused to exchange the car, even though they acknowledged telling me the seats were identical.
AoA refused to assist in any way, because the seats I had were built according to spec for the premium package, and told me to take it up with the dealer.
The dealer, on the otherhand, would not assist because the information they claim to have from Audi says the seats are not different (and hence they did not mislead me from their point of view).
Maybe others see it differently, but I feel I was extremely misled by Audi (whether by the dealer or AoA depends on who's story you believe).
I am not one to complain about things or make a huge fuss. When my 2001 A4 lost coilpacks every 5000 miles I didn't even say a word until around coilpack #7... .
I accept the fact that I screwed up by taking a dealer's word at face value. It was stupid, and the only reason I believed him without another thought was because I assumed all three Audis really would fit basically the same. (I was also told by two seperate dealers that the A3 had the same driver-side dimensions as the A4, and that all of the size differences were due to space taken from the trunk).
It was an expensive life lesson, but I still maintain that a company like Audi should do more for the customer than simply give him the finger when they sell a product that does not live up to the claims made. Any other product would have some warranty -- an ergonomic office chair that turned out to cause back problems after an hour of sitting could be returned. It's unfortunate that vehicles do not have a similar warranty.
I know a number of people who have, on occasion, had some 'personal' difficulty with a car -- in all of those cases, the car companies have taken back the 2 or 3 day old car and exchanged it for a different one without any complaint. That is the kind of customer service I would expect from a luxury car company like Audi. The car had under 100 miles on it when this all started -- the least they could have done would have been to take it back for the sale price and just had me eat the sales tax. Instead they took an extra $6000.
This was by no means buyer's remorse -- I loved that A3, and I still miss it. It was so much fun to drive. But I'm also not going to pop vicodin for 5 years to deal with nerve problems in order to have that fun.
I'm glad it's not a universal problem, so that all of you can enjoy your A3s. But I doubt I will get back into an Audi after all of this.
06-09-2007, 10:38 PM
#4
Ahhhh. Sport seats have always been vastly different from regular or premium seats in any Audi
and so for the dealer to tell you otherwise is utterly shameful. Anybody who has worked at a dealer for more than a few months would have encountered the various types of seats in various models and know they do not sit anything alike. This is clearly and obviously an issue with the dealer IMHO. AoA cannot be responsible for the dealer not training their staff on their product and misleading a customer. With the small margins in A3 sales, I can understand the reluctance of the dealer to take an expensive hit, even though since you based your choice on information they gave you, they bear the responsibility for your dissatisfaction.
I would suggest you write a brief letter to AoA, outlining just as you did here. While they are not going to give you a car, they will know why they lost a customer and you might feel better venting to someone more connected
Johan de Nysschen at:
3499 Hamlin Rd (mail stop 2)
Rochester Hills, MI
48309
On the other hand, as a repeat Audi customer, I would have hoped that you had picked up on sport seats (regardless of model) being different
I would suggest you write a brief letter to AoA, outlining just as you did here. While they are not going to give you a car, they will know why they lost a customer and you might feel better venting to someone more connected
Johan de Nysschen at:
3499 Hamlin Rd (mail stop 2)
Rochester Hills, MI
48309
On the other hand, as a repeat Audi customer, I would have hoped that you had picked up on sport seats (regardless of model) being different
06-09-2007, 10:56 PM
#5
AudiWorld Super User
Thread Starter
Heh
Ya, the only reason I never picked up on the seat differences is because I'd always just bought the sport version of the cars
I kinda agree that it's a dealer issue -- my only concern is that I dealt with two dealerships (trying to get the best deal on the car), and both expressed the same belief about the seats, making me wonder if the information was coming from higher up...
So who is this Johan guy anyway?
Thx,
Josh
I kinda agree that it's a dealer issue -- my only concern is that I dealt with two dealerships (trying to get the best deal on the car), and both expressed the same belief about the seats, making me wonder if the information was coming from higher up...
So who is this Johan guy anyway?
Thx,
Josh
06-10-2007, 07:27 AM
#7
AudiWorld Super User
Thread Starter
Why do you ask?
I am 29 years old, and tall at 6' 2", but not excessively large.
I weigh in at just over 200 lbs, which is just slightly over average for my height.
Since getting my license at 16 I have owned 3 vehicles (4 if you count the A3), and driven 2 more for any great length of time (the parents' cars when I first started driving). One of those vehicles was my father's 1983 Land Cruiser, arguably one of the most uncomfortable vehicles ever built if you're as tall as I, and it didn't even come close to the pain I experienced driving the A3.
In terms of money, I put down about 1/3rd, and financed the rest. I imagine that if I had leased the car, all of this would have been easier.
The real irony is that I bought the A3 in part to save money, and ended up losing several thousand... Live and learn, I suppose. Thankfully, I had enough equity in my A4 trade-in that none of the losses were in liquid assests.
Cheers,
Josh
I weigh in at just over 200 lbs, which is just slightly over average for my height.
Since getting my license at 16 I have owned 3 vehicles (4 if you count the A3), and driven 2 more for any great length of time (the parents' cars when I first started driving). One of those vehicles was my father's 1983 Land Cruiser, arguably one of the most uncomfortable vehicles ever built if you're as tall as I, and it didn't even come close to the pain I experienced driving the A3.
In terms of money, I put down about 1/3rd, and financed the rest. I imagine that if I had leased the car, all of this would have been easier.
The real irony is that I bought the A3 in part to save money, and ended up losing several thousand... Live and learn, I suppose. Thankfully, I had enough equity in my A4 trade-in that none of the losses were in liquid assests.
Cheers,
Josh
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06-10-2007, 08:16 AM
#9
Depending on year and model, sport seats have sometimes been a stand-alone item.
In bouncing back and forth to get the lowest price on a car with already small margins, you may have shot yourself in the foot. I thought perhaps you had built a relationship with a dealer as you've had Audis before.
I'm sure the dealer looked at the money they made on your deal, and decided to play hardball rather than lose money by giving you another car. Frequently a dealer will reference customer loyalty as well as profit margins to decide if the customer is worth their while in retaining. Just a business choice. Had it been a repeat or A8 customer, who knows what would have happened?
As for the dealer telling you the sport and premium seats being the same, that is reprehensible. Was anyone with you during the shopping experience who can support your side of the story? Did you deal with an experienced Audi Brand Specialist? They should and would most certainly know the seats are not the same.
Just glancing at the AoA configurator, the premium and regular seats get their own colours and materials page, while if you check off the sport seats, you get another set. The site says that in the $1650 premium package you get: "12-way power driver seat with 4-way power lumbar adjustment" and in the $2200 sport package you get: "Sport Seats". Other than trip computer, fog lights, and leather, the packages do not overlap.
Johan is the prez of AoA.
I'm sure the dealer looked at the money they made on your deal, and decided to play hardball rather than lose money by giving you another car. Frequently a dealer will reference customer loyalty as well as profit margins to decide if the customer is worth their while in retaining. Just a business choice. Had it been a repeat or A8 customer, who knows what would have happened?
As for the dealer telling you the sport and premium seats being the same, that is reprehensible. Was anyone with you during the shopping experience who can support your side of the story? Did you deal with an experienced Audi Brand Specialist? They should and would most certainly know the seats are not the same.
Just glancing at the AoA configurator, the premium and regular seats get their own colours and materials page, while if you check off the sport seats, you get another set. The site says that in the $1650 premium package you get: "12-way power driver seat with 4-way power lumbar adjustment" and in the $2200 sport package you get: "Sport Seats". Other than trip computer, fog lights, and leather, the packages do not overlap.
Johan is the prez of AoA.
06-10-2007, 09:16 AM
#10
AudiWorld Super User
Thread Starter
No one was with me during the shopping experience
However, the dealers themselves STILL admit they told me the seats were identical. The salesman I spoke with maintains he told me this, and that he honestly had no idea they were different until my case came up.
To his credit, when I saw him yesterday (when I finally sold my car back to Audi for $29k), he was extremely apologetic, and said that he wished he could do more, but that he was at the bottom of the totem pole. He said he understood if I never wanted to set foot in an Audi again, but that if I ever did, he would give me my next Audi for under invoice.
I admit I purchased impulsively -- I should have researched the car much more thoroughly before buying (as I did with my eventual Infiniti M35 purchase -- very happy, BTW). My reasoning was simply that I expected a certain consistency between Audis that I probably should not have, or else I would never have taken the salesman's word at face value.
To his credit, when I saw him yesterday (when I finally sold my car back to Audi for $29k), he was extremely apologetic, and said that he wished he could do more, but that he was at the bottom of the totem pole. He said he understood if I never wanted to set foot in an Audi again, but that if I ever did, he would give me my next Audi for under invoice.
I admit I purchased impulsively -- I should have researched the car much more thoroughly before buying (as I did with my eventual Infiniti M35 purchase -- very happy, BTW). My reasoning was simply that I expected a certain consistency between Audis that I probably should not have, or else I would never have taken the salesman's word at face value.