Attempted To Buy '09 S5 Today
07-04-2009, 06:22 PM
#11
Audiworld Junior Member
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I am interested in peoples opinion on the experience I had trying to buy an S5 today. The car was an '09 Phantom Black with Navigation, Technology, B&O, & Stainless Steel. The salesman was basically unwilling to negotiate on price and then on top of that they only offered the Galves value on my '07 RS4 that I would be trading in (I can get that from a non-Audi dealer who isn't going to try to sell the car for $12k more than what they offered me).
I said to the salesman that basically you are expecting me to take a 50% hit on the car I bought two years ago for full price and get virtually no discount on the S5 that is end of model year and in the middle of a horrible economy. His explanation back to me is that Audi is one of the most expensive cars to own and unlike BMW or Porsche doesn't do anything to help maintain the market value of their used cars. Basically he said people who own Audi's are willing to accept the fact that it costs more to drive than BMW's and Porsche's and that they don't hold their value.
Obviously I left the dealership stunned and pretty much feeling like I would never buy another Audi. Which is really sad since this is our third Audi (and best by far). But I just will not throw money away when there are other really good options (didn't get burned like this on my 911S or any of the 3 M3's I have had).
Let me know your thoughts.
I said to the salesman that basically you are expecting me to take a 50% hit on the car I bought two years ago for full price and get virtually no discount on the S5 that is end of model year and in the middle of a horrible economy. His explanation back to me is that Audi is one of the most expensive cars to own and unlike BMW or Porsche doesn't do anything to help maintain the market value of their used cars. Basically he said people who own Audi's are willing to accept the fact that it costs more to drive than BMW's and Porsche's and that they don't hold their value.
Obviously I left the dealership stunned and pretty much feeling like I would never buy another Audi. Which is really sad since this is our third Audi (and best by far). But I just will not throw money away when there are other really good options (didn't get burned like this on my 911S or any of the 3 M3's I have had).
Let me know your thoughts.
With regards to trade in values on luxury cars. They are all in the tank with exception of a few. This economy has alot of people getting out of their payments, either by voluntarily repo, trading down, or selling for cheap. This has caused a glut on the market. The 09 S5's are practically sold out in every dealership and the 10's are mostly spoken for. So it is not a wonder that many dealerships are holding tight to pricing.
Charles Sharoubim
Audi Brand Specialist
Champion Audi Coral Springs
954.509.2403
07-05-2009, 02:15 AM
#12
Audiworld Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have come to the conclusion as well that the private sale of my RS4 is the way to go. I can make significantly more than I am being offered in trade while significantly undercutting the price on comparable used RS4's listed by dealers. The part I find I don't completely get is if I were a dealer (I am in the Northeast and there are still a decent amount of S5's out there for a limited production car) I could make more on the total transaction flipping out of the S5 and into the RS4. The latest Galves actually had the RS4 move up $500 in trade-in value so it is past the steepest part of its depreciation curve. Where as the S5 will be a prior year model in August when the '10's start to arrive (again here in the Northeast you can go into most Audi dealers and find both S5's and R8's this is not 2007 when you had to race dealer to dealer to try to land an RS4). By doing a deal with me a dealer would actually be making money on an S5 and then adding an RS4 (very limited used supply in Northeast) that they could easily make $5k or more on.
The other thing that amazes about the car buying experience is how lucky you have to be on who you draw as a salesman. I have had several experiences where I could not purchase a car from the most convenient dealership and then found out someone else got the same deal at the same time as I got by going out of my way (like buying from a dealer 30 minutes in the opposite direction from work).
I think in the end what bothers me the most is that the RS4 has been the best overall car that I have owned (other comparable cars I have had include 3 M3's, 1 CLK55, 1 997S). So it is disappointing it is getting less respect from Audi dealers than the M3's and 997S got (the AMG was a disaster). When I traded my 997S in the deals I was getting offered spread $2k based on whether it was a dealer who had a Porsche shop or not.
In case you are curious the only reason I am parting with the RS4 is it can not fit all of our kids (we are up to 3) and my wife does cannot drive a manual. So instead of getting another big vehicle we decided to go for something fun in an automatic - the S5 hopefully!
Thanks for all of the replies - this has been an interesting conversation on Audi, dealers, and the car buying experience!
The other thing that amazes about the car buying experience is how lucky you have to be on who you draw as a salesman. I have had several experiences where I could not purchase a car from the most convenient dealership and then found out someone else got the same deal at the same time as I got by going out of my way (like buying from a dealer 30 minutes in the opposite direction from work).
I think in the end what bothers me the most is that the RS4 has been the best overall car that I have owned (other comparable cars I have had include 3 M3's, 1 CLK55, 1 997S). So it is disappointing it is getting less respect from Audi dealers than the M3's and 997S got (the AMG was a disaster). When I traded my 997S in the deals I was getting offered spread $2k based on whether it was a dealer who had a Porsche shop or not.
In case you are curious the only reason I am parting with the RS4 is it can not fit all of our kids (we are up to 3) and my wife does cannot drive a manual. So instead of getting another big vehicle we decided to go for something fun in an automatic - the S5 hopefully!
Thanks for all of the replies - this has been an interesting conversation on Audi, dealers, and the car buying experience!
07-05-2009, 05:17 AM
#13
AudiWorld Senior Member
In case you are curious the only reason I am parting with the RS4 is it can not fit all of our kids (we are up to 3) and my wife does cannot drive a manual. So instead of getting another big vehicle we decided to go for something fun in an automatic - the S5 hopefully!
07-05-2009, 06:54 AM
#14
Audiworld Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yeah, this car will be for only our 3 year old (who likes the rumble of a V8 - wonder where he got that from). The minivan will be the carrier for family outings and the S5 Automatic will enable my wife to use the car when I have the kids & minivan.
07-05-2009, 09:16 AM
#15
AudiWorld Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 1,891
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As a fellow stupid salesperson in the Northeast(Long Island)
I can attest to the Limited Availability of S5 Automatics. Our store only has a single 2009 S5 left and it's a Stick.
Why whould you switch from a RS4 to a S5 in the first place. It has less power, less space and it's not as rare. Also, with the new sport differential comming out in 2010 there is no reason at all to get a 2009, unless you need a car yesterday. I recently drove the new S4 in Germany with the Sport Diff and it was amazing even with the supercharged V6. It will be even better paired to the V8 in the S5, and absolutely Divine in the RS5 or RS4 whenever they are available.
As far as trade in values you will always get wholesale value. It's not personal it just business.
Why whould you switch from a RS4 to a S5 in the first place. It has less power, less space and it's not as rare. Also, with the new sport differential comming out in 2010 there is no reason at all to get a 2009, unless you need a car yesterday. I recently drove the new S4 in Germany with the Sport Diff and it was amazing even with the supercharged V6. It will be even better paired to the V8 in the S5, and absolutely Divine in the RS5 or RS4 whenever they are available.
As far as trade in values you will always get wholesale value. It's not personal it just business.
07-05-2009, 05:55 PM
#16
AudiWorld Senior Member
The other key thing to keep in mind is to ask for the salesman that is the Audi specialist. Go back to the same dealer and ask for that individual. Too bad for the jerk that treated you badly. The Audi specialists tend to be the good guys.
07-05-2009, 09:18 PM
#17
Audiworld Junior Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This kinda sucks. Why is it that Audi have lower resale value?
And why is it more expensive too? Compared to its main competitor, the BMW 335i coupe. It seems to me the BMW is overall cheaper
And why is it more expensive too? Compared to its main competitor, the BMW 335i coupe. It seems to me the BMW is overall cheaper
07-06-2009, 12:21 AM
#18
Audiworld Junior Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Denver
Posts: 40
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Anthony4579...I feel for ya. It's hard not to work with a dealer when you're looking at a new model. IMHO...don't throw thousands of profit at those guys just because they have something you want. Do like a previous post and find a demo, or slightly used S5 and sell you're RS privately. Dealerships are truly crooked. Haven't dealt with one yet that wasn't. (And i've dealt with more than most do in a lifetime) Best of luck to you though!!
HAHAHAAA...so it's good business to **** off you're customers?? Many of whom, would like to be repeat customers. Wholesale value is BS. Just take the RS4 issue. How can a dealer call it "just business" to undercut someone a minimum of $7k on one vehicle?? Ponder, $37k wholesale value of an RS4 to turn around and sell off the lot for $45k+. Should be laws against it, like usury laws for exploited interest rates. The whole topic makes me sick...that within the past 5-8 years, dealerships have nationwide held hands in moving away from "trade-in" values to this wholesale BS. Trade-in values are thousands less than private party values which are thousands less than retail values ALREADY...so who in the world got it in their greedy minds that people needed to be screwed out of even thousands more than the decades-used "trade-in" value?!? I'll tell you who, execs like those of Enron. Capitalism is a good thing, however when turned into greed it becomes destructive and counter-productive. That's it for my soapbox. Just PLEASE don't say it's "just business." That kind of business has already made me, one customer (current RS4 owner), who will NEVER buy another Audi from a dealer again.
I can attest to the Limited Availability of S5 Automatics. Our store only has a single 2009 S5 left and it's a Stick.
Why whould you switch from a RS4 to a S5 in the first place. It has less power, less space and it's not as rare. Also, with the new sport differential comming out in 2010 there is no reason at all to get a 2009, unless you need a car yesterday. I recently drove the new S4 in Germany with the Sport Diff and it was amazing even with the supercharged V6. It will be even better paired to the V8 in the S5, and absolutely Divine in the RS5 or RS4 whenever they are available.
As far as trade in values you will always get wholesale value. It's not personal it just business.
Why whould you switch from a RS4 to a S5 in the first place. It has less power, less space and it's not as rare. Also, with the new sport differential comming out in 2010 there is no reason at all to get a 2009, unless you need a car yesterday. I recently drove the new S4 in Germany with the Sport Diff and it was amazing even with the supercharged V6. It will be even better paired to the V8 in the S5, and absolutely Divine in the RS5 or RS4 whenever they are available.
As far as trade in values you will always get wholesale value. It's not personal it just business.
07-06-2009, 12:01 PM
#19
AudiWorld Member
Join Date: May 2009
Location: SE Michigan
Posts: 134
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Quick question, when we talk about negotiating for $XXXX over invoice or X% over invoice, we're talking about paying that amount for the base price of the car. The options are paid for at full MSRP (i.e. not invoice), right?
07-06-2009, 12:12 PM
#20
AudiWorld Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Philadelphia, PA USA
Posts: 160
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
No, it's over what the dealer pays Audi for the car - "all-in". They will have an actual invoice they can/should show you that details the base price of the car, options, destination costs, marketing, inspection, etc. It will show MSRP and Dealer invoice cost for all these items. A smart buyer will negotiate from the invoice cost up (either as a % increase or a $ increase over dealer invoice).